Whats the Difference Between A Coastal and Blue Water Suitable Vessel

[Polux]

Originally Posted by sailingfarmer

I guess if you own one of those French "Hunter's... a Beneteau or Jeneau you have to be brave as hell in one of those floating marshmallows or pick your weather like a sailing instructor teaching 8 year olds how to sail an Optima...

Hell,at least braver than the ones that abandon a Swan 44 in seaworthy conditions because they were afraid of continuing on those conditions. They were reported to be experienced sailors...and yes some time ago the Swan was still sailing out there alone, don't know were it is now.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BROhwd3VMKs

Regarding Mark's Beneteau it does not seem to me very different in seaworthiness regarding a Bavaria 36 and I know a guy that had done two circumnavigations on one, one of them by the Horn.

I hear that he had some rough sailing but he did not chose always the best period for crossings. He had a time table. The worst it happened to him was a mast lost on one of the circumnavigations. He jury rigged to the next port.

I heard of another guy that on a Bavaria 36 circumnavigate without problems. On the Pacific he got considerable high winds, downwind but he had not a problem with it and went dam fast.

Many Bavaria 36 had crossed the Atlantic and I know the owner of one of them. He knocked at my boat at Lagos to have a chat with me (I had then a Bavaria 36). He wanted to know my opinion about the boat because everybody during the crossing or when he was cruising at the Caribbean was telling him that it was not a boat to do that.

I asked him if he had any problem on the two crossings, he said that in one of then (don't know each or in what time of the year) he got a gale or a storm (I don't know) and as it was pretty useless any thing he tried to do with the boat, he took the sails out, put a floating anchor went inside closed the boat and waited 3 days till the sea become sailable again.

I asked if it was too bad he confessed that he was scared on the first day since he didn't know what to expect from the boat but he was never rolled and suffered only a couple of vicious knock outs. After the first day he said it was not agreeable but not too bad.

He was a British with a typical sense of humor and when I asked him: so do you think the boat was not up to it? He said, "well.... rubbish, I am being silly". I found very funny him thinking that it was him that was being silly

I never heard of any Bavaria 36 that went down and not of any Beneteau 373 either. Maybe someone can have more information about that? Both were boats that were built in many hundreds of exemplars, closer to a thousand I think and both have crossed many oceans.

[Polux]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Only if its one's Own Boat...
Usually find 'Zero's to Hero's' on someone else's dime... that's why most racers suck cruising.. its the polar opposite to their mindset..

Not all, some even have built the boat to do long range cruising with their family, using their vast blue water experience coming from many racing ocean crossings and racing circumnavigations, many times in very nasty weather, to have the right type of boat to do it.

And the type of boat?...well, the boat is the one you would expect to someone that likes to sail fast and safely, even while cruising and has the means to have a proper fast long range cruising boat

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-dTYQXyE7jM

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by sailingfarmer

I think a lot of Coastal Cruise boat owners have Bluewater Cruise Boat Envy....

Nobody wants to sail in bad weather.. but if your boat is designed to handle it... it sure calms the nerves a bit knowing you have a boat that was built to handle it if you get caught in in a nasty blow....

The same applies to people with 40 year old 27' boats, or larger older boats, or newer expensive boats.

In my opinion the only thing different between a true coastal boat and bluewater boat is tankage, storage, and rigging (probably not unless someone did something stupid along the way). After that I believe it is more about fit out items and crew decisions.

I know I didn't get my boat based on any bluewater thing, but I don't doubt it will handle it MUCH better than I will. I hope to never find out, but the decisions I make before and during the event are going to be the deciding factors.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Polux

Not all, some even have built the boat to do long range cruising with their family, using their vast blue water experience coming from many racing ocean crossings and racing circumnavigations, many times in very nasty weather, to have the right type of boat to do it.

And the type of boat?...well, the boat is the one you would expect to someone that likes to sail fast and safely, even while cruising and has the means to have a proper fast long range cruising boat

Like I said.. mindset..

[Polux]

Originally Posted by thomm225

...
There are so many nice Water boats">blue water boats here that never leave the dock it is unbelievable and sad, but maybe they don't make the best daysailors which most people tend to do more of.
...

And many of those beautiful bluewater boats are old boats, 20 or 30 years old and many of them not maintained to blue-water condition from many years.

It is good to remember that most boats that go down or are abandoned are not mass production cruisers but old "blue water boats" or boats that were that when they were kept in perfect seaworthy conditions.

Maintaining an old bluewater boat in a bluewater condition is a very expensive affair that some do, but not most. That's why you see lots of them that are only used on coastal conditions or rarely go out of port.

Well, that is a lot better than to take them (in a not seaworthy maintenance condition) to cross oceans even if some do that, some times with nasty consequences.

[Juho]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

Doesn't it seem like there is a problem with the bluewater boat owners? They get caught in bad weather so often and for so long at a time that they expect this as normal.

There are two ways to get yourself killed in a storm. The first one is by sailing into a storm without the necessary skills and hardware. The second one is to learn and buy all that, and then test your limits until you succeed.

[sailingfarmer]

Originally Posted by thomm225

Or maybe that's what the owner of an expensive Blue Water Boat tells himself to rationalize the amount of money he spent on his boat.

There are so many nice blue water boats here that never leave the dock it is unbelievable and sad, but maybe they don't make the best daysailors which most people tend to do more of.

Even when crossing the 20 miles of the lower Chesapeake, I rarely see more than 2-4 other sailboats out there which seem strange because there are 100's docked here

Good point...I wonder the same too about all those boats firmly Velcro'd to the dock... but just as many coastal cruisers stay tied to the dock as well... I think it's the dream and lack of time that keeps them there. It is true that a kid in dirty overalls plays more baseball than most kids dressed to the tee.... My point was... any boat can do it... it's the will of the Captain that makes it happen not the nicety of the boat...ALTHOUGH... if we had our druthers it would be on a top notch Bluewater cruiser, with plenty of time and great weather.

[reed1v]

Originally Posted by Juho

There are two ways to get yourself killed in a storm. The first one is by sailing into a storm without the necessary skills and hardware. The second one is to learn and buy all that, and then test your limits until you succeed.

Depends on what kind of storm.

[TeddyDiver]

Originally Posted by sailingfarmer

Nobody wants to sail in bad weather..

I do.. thou I must admit that's what some seem to consider as 'bad weather' here. Third reef in a bit of a gale on the quarter makes the day or even better if few days

BR Teddy

[Juho]

Originally Posted by reed1v

Depends on what kind of storm.

If someone tests his limits continuously to see where they are, he may eventually find the answer.

[zeehag]

Originally Posted by Juho

If someone tests his limits continuously to see where they are, he may eventually find the answer.

or she could just be having fun.

[Juho]

Originally Posted by zeehag

or she could just be having fun.

Yes, until he/she in the end finds the absolute limits of his/her bluewater survival skills.

[Stu Jackson]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

And FWIW, IMO it is not equipment that defines the BWB, but the structural integrity of hull and rig, and the watertightness of the openings. If those things are good enough, the rest of the features are window dressing in terms of survival.

As always, Jim, right to the point. Thanks.

A majority of "coastal cruisers" do NOT have, uhm, what do the newbies call 'em, oh, yeah, WINDOWS that can take heavy water. And heavy water is NOT the stuff they make A bombs out of.

I can sail up and down the coast of the Pacific Ocean off San Francisco on MOST days, and do, but certainly wouldn't put myself at risk out there during the winter storms we're having. Most of my boat could take it, but the plastic fixed portlights and the Beckson opening ports wouldn't.

A hole in the boat is no fun, regardless of where the hole is.

And I love my boat, had it for 18 years.

But I know its limitations.

But on of our Catalina 34s just sailed across the Pacific. Latitude 38 - 'Lectronic Latitude

It happens. All the time. I wouldn't.

Those are the things one needs to know to answer the OP's (recurring) question.

It's more like: "If you have to ask, you don't know, and should do some more homework and research."

Sure that's what these forums are for, but it's like if you stick around here for a month it will come up, again and again and again...

Or do a search on the subject first. The "Google" search feature of this forum is awesome.

[Rustic Charm]

I really don't get the need for some posters to come into a thread and criticise the thread existance. 178 posts later suggests others were interested in the question and the discussion.

I've been around CF for a while now and YES, it's been asked previous and YES, I've been involved in those discussions too.

But, CF is always getting new members, and it does NO HARM to ask a question again. It's entertainment as well as knowledge after all. And it sure saves the labourish process of going through lots and lots of threads via the search engine.

If you don't like repeated questions, DONT GET INVOLVED!

[Cap Erict3]

I'm guessing this qualified at one time as a BWC.