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Old 25-11-2015, 10:24   #61
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Re: Watermaker Myths

The WHO disagrees, you can read their report on the subject here:

http://www.who.int/water_sanitation_...hap12.pdf?ua=1

including concerns that RO water, because it is so mineral deficient can leach minerals from the body.

However, a lot of the talk on this thread, and WHO report, is about domestic RO systems that process freshwater. While the science is the same, the systems are not identical. A freshwater RO process probably starts with a TDS value less then 250ppm, while with saltwater RO systems we are happy to get down to 250ppm.

One of the key mineral deficiencies in the WHO report is calcium. Worldwide the calcium concentration in tap water is reported around 20ppm (it varies widely, from almost nothing to several hundred ppm). If you remove 95% of that with a freshwater RO system you get down to 1ppm. Ocean water, on the other hand, starts at a calcium concentration of about 400ppm. If you remove 95% of that calcium you end up at 20ppm, which is actually pretty close to what you would find in average tapwater (and 95% removal is pretty typical of the systems we use).

Magnesium is another critical mineral, which is present in seawater at ~1250ppm, RO removal brings this down to tolerable levels.

In industrial scale studies the WHO found seawater RO did remove too much of these minerals, and one recommended corrective measure was to blend back in 1% untreated (or un-ROed seawater) to get mineral concentrations back up where they were expected:

http://apps.who.int/iris/bitstream/1...563550_eng.pdf

I still drink the RO water on the boat, I think it is the best of most options (personal opinion) but there are legitimate concerns about RO and minerals.
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Old 25-11-2015, 10:49   #62
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Re: Watermaker Myths

Take a multi vitamin with calcium problem solved
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Old 25-11-2015, 12:12   #63
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Re: Watermaker Myths

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Originally Posted by Dsanduril View Post
The WHO disagrees, you can read their report on the subject here:

http://www.who.int/water_sanitation_...hap12.pdf?ua=1

including concerns that RO water, because it is so mineral deficient can leach minerals from the body.

However, a lot of the talk on this thread, and WHO report, is about domestic RO systems that process freshwater. While the science is the same, the systems are not identical. A freshwater RO process probably starts with a TDS value less then 250ppm, while with saltwater RO systems we are happy to get down to 250ppm.

One of the key mineral deficiencies in the WHO report is calcium. Worldwide the calcium concentration in tap water is reported around 20ppm (it varies widely, from almost nothing to several hundred ppm). If you remove 95% of that with a freshwater RO system you get down to 1ppm. Ocean water, on the other hand, starts at a calcium concentration of about 400ppm. If you remove 95% of that calcium you end up at 20ppm, which is actually pretty close to what you would find in average tapwater (and 95% removal is pretty typical of the systems we use).

Magnesium is another critical mineral, which is present in seawater at ~1250ppm, RO removal brings this down to tolerable levels.

In industrial scale studies the WHO found seawater RO did remove too much of these minerals, and one recommended corrective measure was to blend back in 1% untreated (or un-ROed seawater) to get mineral concentrations back up where they were expected:

http://apps.who.int/iris/bitstream/1...563550_eng.pdf

I still drink the RO water on the boat, I think it is the best of most options (personal opinion) but there are legitimate concerns about RO and minerals.
Really? Tell that to all expats and diplomats raising babies and infants living in africa for decades with steam distillation units sitting in their kitchens.
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Old 25-11-2015, 12:23   #64
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Re: Watermaker Myths

One word answer for calcium deficiency: Tums
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Old 25-11-2015, 12:34   #65
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Re: Watermaker Myths

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Really? Tell that to all expats and diplomats raising babies and infants living in africa for decades with steam distillation units sitting in their kitchens.
Have you tracked how many of those expat babies ended up with osteoporosis in old age? How many had broken bones or bad teeth as children or adults? Just because people do it doesn't mean it's best practice. Can you survive drinking RO or distilled water and have a long life? Most definitely, and your anecdotal evidence is part of that dataset. But would you be healthier if you had minerals in your water? Most likely you would have better bone structure and a few other benefits. You don't have to believe the science if you don't want to.
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Old 25-11-2015, 12:40   #66
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Re: Watermaker Myths

Guess some here haven't heard of FOOD, you know that thing we put into our bodies that has vitamins and minerals
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Old 25-11-2015, 12:41   #67
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Re: Watermaker Myths

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Thank you for letting me know that millions of naval personnel on ships are drinking deasal water that is not good for them every day. ( naval and coast guard the world over.) I have been drinking desal water for most of my life with no ill effects.
I think you need to re-read his post - particularly the last sentence of it. He stated that RO water from the sea does contain sufficient minerals.

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Old 25-11-2015, 12:48   #68
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Re: Watermaker Myths

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I think you need to re-read his post - particularly the last sentence of it. He stated that RO water from the sea does contain sufficient minerals.

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you mean, reading what we want it to read is less productive?
damn!
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Old 25-11-2015, 12:53   #69
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Re: Watermaker Myths

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By the way - this is as good a place as any to publically thank you Tellie for your help and advice in installing my spectra.


Sunday morning and I was stuck on a connection issue. The spectra rep here in Denmark doesn't work on sundays, so I figured, "what the heck" and sent a mail to Tellie.
An hour later, my mailbox dinged and in rolled his answer and advice.


Great customer service from someone who wasn't going to make a dime on helping me.


Thank you Tellie and when we get to Florida on our RTW, the beer's on me (or if you are a martini drinker, a martini(or two) made with The Botanist gin)

Thanks for the nice comment. It's always my pleasure to help out anytime.

Beer always works. I look forward to meeting you when you get here.

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Old 25-11-2015, 14:07   #70
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Re: Watermaker Myths

Primarily this about RO on tap water. However, technically speaking, it does apply to seawater ROs on boats as well. The data suggests that a seawater RO is about 10x too low in Ca and Mg. My feeling is that sailors that like to swim probably swallow enough seawater and use enough shore water to make up the difference. Read the data table below.

"Really? Tell that to all expats and diplomats raising babies and infants living in africa for decades with steam distillation units sitting in their kitchens."
The report explains that the risk is heart disease and stroke. They most likely never noticed the slight risk increase. This sort of anecdote does not disprove the data.

"Guess some here haven't heard of FOOD, you know that thing we put into our bodies that has vitamins and minerals "
You did not read the report before commenting. The WHO report was based upon actual large population epidemiology and included... food. They also studied supplements, and for complicated reasons, they really did not work as well as the minerals in the water.

Please read the report and THEN comment.

I agree it is counter intuitive. However, municipal plants are now required to re-mineralize the water. Read up.

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Old 25-11-2015, 14:21   #71
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Re: Watermaker Myths

Drinking bottled water is OK for women.

But men? Who wants man boobs?

The Chemical That Could Give You Man Boobs
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Old 25-11-2015, 14:51   #72
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Re: Watermaker Myths

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Who wants man boobs?
I'm a woman but I don't want man boobs either
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Old 25-11-2015, 16:16   #73
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Re: Watermaker Myths

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Take a multi vitamin with calcium problem solved
Or chew on a seashell.
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Old 26-11-2015, 06:47   #74
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Re: Watermaker Myths

Quote:
Originally Posted by thinwater View Post
Primarily this about RO on tap water. However, technically speaking, it does apply to seawater ROs on boats as well. The data suggests that a seawater RO is about 10x too low in Ca and Mg. My feeling is that sailors that like to swim probably swallow enough seawater and use enough shore water to make up the difference. Read the data table below.

"Really? Tell that to all expats and diplomats raising babies and infants living in africa for decades with steam distillation units sitting in their kitchens."
The report explains that the risk is heart disease and stroke. They most likely never noticed the slight risk increase. This sort of anecdote does not disprove the data.

"Guess some here haven't heard of FOOD, you know that thing we put into our bodies that has vitamins and minerals "
You did not read the report before commenting. The WHO report was based upon actual large population epidemiology and included... food. They also studied supplements, and for complicated reasons, they really did not work as well as the minerals in the water.

Please read the report and THEN comment.

I agree it is counter intuitive. However, municipal plants are now required to re-mineralize the water. Read up.

Drinking water isn't our ONLY source of calcium and magnesium. Milk, multivitamins and tums etc. provide adequate amounts to make up any deficiency.

As a healthcare professional, I'm also not buying into the "RO water leaching minerals from the body" argument or the only way to get minerals into your body is via water argument. Water and food hit your gut in the same way and the minerals are absorbed via the intestines, then stored, used or discarded according to your body's needs. The body's glandular system, kidneys etc are also involved in the process.... Not nearly as simplistic as water leaching minerals from the body. The calcium issue alone is much more complex than just taking in a certain amount, it also involves vitamin D and weight bearing physical activity.

I read the very short excerpt from the single WHO report... It's referring to DISTILLED WATER which has had all minerals removed. On this thread, we're discussing RO WATER..... Which is completely different.
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Old 25-12-2015, 00:51   #75
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Re: Watermaker Myths

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I'm a woman but I don't want man boobs either


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