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Old 11-09-2015, 18:51   #76
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Re: Urgent Assistance To Find Missing Australian Yacht

Fwiw, I thought I read earlier that the cause for one of the distress/Epirb calls was a leaking rudder post which one of the NZ Navy guys successfuly repaired. With water coming into the boat, it would make sense to send out the distress, but might also make sense to then continue on once repaired. Not sure about the second one . . . facts a bit confusing as they usually are in these circumstances.

Thanks, Rustic, for putting out the word on this.
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Old 11-09-2015, 19:19   #77
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Re: Urgent Assistance To Find Missing Australian Yacht

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Originally Posted by Rustic Charm View Post
The last known co-ordinates for him were at 1300 hours on the 10th AEST and they were 24 44 south and 162 14 E

Just as well us Aussies are such an endearing lot, because this is the type of sailor that should not be out there. He's abused the purpose of an Epirb, twice and so far cost a small fortune to both the NZ Navy in sending an Orion out to look for him and then diverting a Navy ship and of course the cruise liner missed a Port for him completely.


But anyway. If there is anyone some where near by enough to reach him on VHF.
Well golleeeeeee......

Pacific Jewel missed no ports.... in fact in that bit of the ocean there are no ports to miss.

'Sep 07 (Mon)
10-day from
Sydney Sep 07 16:00 (Sydney, dep), Sep 10 (Noumea), Sep 11 (Lifou), Sep 12 (Vila), Sep 13 (Champagne Bay), Sep 17 07:00 (Sydney).'

He has used his EPIRB to seek assistance... nothing wrong with that.
The RNZN decided that the ship was fit to continue her voyage back to brisbane.
Where was the small fortune expended exactly?

If the Pacific Jewel gave him some vittles and he ran out again within two days either he was very hungry or the PJ had a misery guts pommy chief steward ( I've sailed with a few... I must tell you the story of 'the Captain's Orange' one day....)

The problem is that when you say '78 year old' you tend to think of some old geezer in a clapped out old ferro Hartley. sorry Jim

In his situation I would have done exactly the same thing... in fact I did once ... except I used Ham radio for a Pan call and then had to go and find my own ship..........that involved fuel and not repairs or tucker ( but it did involve the Captain's Orange).

Despite a substantial insurance claim I kept my 'no claim bonus' thingo as by the resourcefulness of the crew and myself we saved the underwriters from a far larger claim.
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Old 11-09-2015, 19:55   #78
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Re: Urgent Assistance To Find Missing Australian Yacht

Quote:
The problem is that when you say '78 year old' you tend to think of some old geezer in a clapped out old ferro Hartley. sorry Jim
Sheesh, Ping, that guy is REALLY old. I'm only 77!

And thanks for finding that cruise schedule. I didn't think they were planning a stop at Chesterfield, which is about the only interim anchorage in the area! No ports of call missed for the punters. The ship may have turned up the wick a bit to get there o n time, but perhaps not. We've often seen them more or less hove to off the entrance waiting to enter at dawn.

I must admit that the Kiwi navy did incur some expenses in the operation, but really, 80 litres of diesel and some C-rations... not much when compared with the value of the yacht and life possessions that "the authorities" want him to abandon... and the course deviation, well, that's life at sea. Naval vessels seem to wander about a lot in general!

Now, as to his sails. I sure don't know what state they are in, but it will not require much of a sail to make the miles downwind to Oz. Just about any canvas that one can hoist in the fore triangle will pull the boat along in the trades. I suspect that it would do 2+ knots with bare poles in the 20-25 knots that are blowing now. That would get him near either Bundy or Brissie in something like his ten days food supply, and if he is hungry when he gets there, well, lots of folks are hungry for less compelling reasons than saving your entire life's possessions.


I'm not saying that this chap has exercised the best of seamanship or judgement, but condemning him for his actions seems excessive to me.

Jim
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Old 11-09-2015, 20:29   #79
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Re: Urgent Assistance To Find Missing Australian Yacht

AFAIK (I will no doubt be corrected!!) although usual practice with setting off an epirb is for the crew to be rescued from the vessel their is no compulsion to be rescued (at least outside the borders of the "land of the free" no names. Lol).....ie the assistance can be simply rescuing someone from the situation (fixing a broke bit / more provisions etc).


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Old 11-09-2015, 21:20   #80
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Re: Urgent Assistance To Find Missing Australian Yacht

Unfortunately EPIRBs don't give you the Mayday or Pan option....

Ham radio would have been handy...assorted marine and ham band nets cover that area.... don't even need a ham ticket if its an emergency....

Re the Orion - NZ's Orions ( I think they have several) are always out and about somewhere in their economic/SAR zone.
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Old 11-09-2015, 21:55   #81
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Re: Urgent Assistance To Find Missing Australian Yacht

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Originally Posted by El Pinguino View Post
Well golleeeeeee......

Pacific Jewel missed no ports.... in fact in that bit of the ocean there are no ports to miss.

'Sep 07 (Mon)
10-day from
Sydney Sep 07 16:00 (Sydney, dep), Sep 10 (Noumea), Sep 11 (Lifou), Sep 12 (Vila), Sep 13 (Champagne Bay), Sep 17 07:00 (Sydney).'

He has used his EPIRB to seek assistance... nothing wrong with that.
The RNZN decided that the ship was fit to continue her voyage back to brisbane.
Where was the small fortune expended exactly?

If the Pacific Jewel gave him some vittles and he ran out again within two days either he was very hungry or the PJ had a misery guts pommy chief steward ( I've sailed with a few... I must tell you the story of 'the Captain's Orange' one day....)

The problem is that when you say '78 year old' you tend to think of some old geezer in a clapped out old ferro Hartley. sorry Jim

In his situation I would have done exactly the same thing... in fact I did once ... except I used Ham radio for a Pan call and then had to go and find my own ship..........that involved fuel and not repairs or tucker ( but it did involve the Captain's Orange).

Despite a substantial insurance claim I kept my 'no claim bonus' thingo as by the resourcefulness of the crew and myself we saved the underwriters from a far larger claim.
Ok Ping, I stand corrected. I was told by someone within Search and Rescue that they missed a port to divert. That was obviously not correct then.

I don't know where you have got the idea his rescuers thought it was safe for him to return to Brisbane. They actually wanted him to leave his vessel and go with them.

As for your comment about EPIRBS, they are not there to be used for 'assistance', at all. They are there for grave and imminent danger. Now it's fair enough that if you set and EPIRB off because as in this case your about to starve and can't proceed and as result of getting assistance, you and your rescuers decide your fine now and can continue your journey, then that's fair enough. But to then set it off again 48hrs later, again not for rescue, but for obtaining assistance. NO, that's abusing the purpose of an EPIRB. And I can tell you, the authorities are getting annoyed with him.
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Old 11-09-2015, 22:14   #82
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Re: Urgent Assistance To Find Missing Australian Yacht

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Originally Posted by PortClydeMe View Post
Jim, I don't sail low-budget, and I would never sail without a proper store of emergency rations. Thus, I cannot answer your condescending question. Sorry if that lets you down a little this afternoon, but life is not always perfect. By the way, weren't you and your mate just recently using your Internet connection daily near New Caledonia? You should have had a look around. Word is there was an old geezer beating into the wind with no vittles or refreshments. Kind of "low budget". Take care.
You don't sail low budget? I'm trying to think of a way to word this that won't get me banned from CF for ever, which I'd be semi okay with, considering the abuse sub 40 footer, working class people take on this forum daily.

Dude, there is a little bit more to this, than how much change you found in your pocket when you were born.
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Old 11-09-2015, 23:07   #83
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Re: Urgent Assistance To Find Missing Australian Yacht

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Originally Posted by Rustic Charm View Post
Ok Ping, I stand corrected. I was told by someone within Search and Rescue that they missed a port to divert. That was obviously not correct then.

I don't know where you have got the idea his rescuers thought it was safe for him to return to Brisbane. They actually wanted him to leave his vessel and go with them.

As for your comment about EPIRBS, they are not there to be used for 'assistance', at all. They are there for grave and imminent danger. Now it's fair enough that if you set and EPIRB off because as in this case your about to starve and can't proceed and as result of getting assistance, you and your rescuers decide your fine now and can continue your journey, then that's fair enough. But to then set it off again 48hrs later, again not for rescue, but for obtaining assistance. NO, that's abusing the purpose of an EPIRB. And I can tell you, the authorities are getting annoyed with him.
The Captain of the Te Kaha didn't sound too annoyed.

Yes in a perfect world we would all have HF and VHF DSC ( why exactly did Australia decide that the entire Australian sea area would be A3...oh thats right... to save a few bucks...), we would all have marine and ham HF and we would all live happily ever after.... but we don't and we probably won't.

So, if I am sailing along and a crew member suffers a caved in head or something... you are saying that I shouldn't use my EPIRB to get them some medical attention? And that if I do use the epirb that then we should all abandon a perfectly good boat? I don't think so.

So... the authorities are getting annoyed..... its not their job to get annoyed or pass judgement... we employ judges to do that sort of stuff.

People driving desks in Canberra should just get on with the job they are paid to do.
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Old 11-09-2015, 23:47   #84
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Re: Urgent Assistance To Find Missing Australian Yacht

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The Captain of the Te Kaha didn't sound too annoyed.

Yes in a perfect world we would all have HF and VHF DSC ( why exactly did Australia decide that the entire Australian sea area would be A3...oh thats right... to save a few bucks...), we would all have marine and ham HF and we would all live happily ever after.... but we don't and we probably won't.

So, if I am sailing along and a crew member suffers a caved in head or something... you are saying that I shouldn't use my EPIRB to get them some medical attention? NO, Ping, I wasn't suggesting that. And that if I do use the epirb that then we should all abandon a perfectly good boat? I don't think so. \No Ping, didn't suggest that either.

So... the authorities are getting annoyed..... its not their job to get annoyed or pass judgement... we employ judges to do that sort of stuff.

People driving desks in Canberra should just get on with the job they are paid to do.
I'm not spoiling for an argument Ping, just trying to get the guy some assistance. That's all.
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Old 12-09-2015, 04:09   #85
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Re: Urgent Assistance To Find Missing Australian Yacht

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No Wottie, it was the frigate that was on the way to SEA, not the yacht......
And again, kudos to the Kiwis... what a class act!!

Jim
Bludi heck Jim, you have gone and proved something I have always suspected...

That you are smarter than than me and have far better comprehension

That must be why you are cruising around while I remain a weekend wannabe...
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Old 12-09-2015, 04:15   #86
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Re: Urgent Assistance To Find Missing Australian Yacht

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I'm not spoiling for an argument Ping, just trying to get the guy some assistance. That's all.
Sorry Rustic, you'll find 'arguments' down the hall.... this is lively debate ... is all
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Old 12-09-2015, 04:21   #87
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Re: Urgent Assistance To Find Missing Australian Yacht

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As to the usability of the vessels sails, Jim just said to me that if you sent him and Dockhead to evaluate their usability to go 600 n. mi., the opinions might be different. And the Mahi skipper's opinion might be different, also, but Jim didn't say that.
They don't call us "Rag and Stick Merchants" for nothing you know.
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Old 12-09-2015, 04:48   #88
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Re: Urgent Assistance To Find Missing Australian Yacht

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that won't get me banned from CF for ever, which I'd be semi okay with, considering the abuse sub 40 footer, working class people take on this forum daily.

Ahhh, stick around FV! I love learning from your experience, and I've only had positive experiences with the folks on the big boats 'out there.' You must be a true kind heart too, considering you went back to that other thread to help out NBY!

I had read on past threads that NZ, in particular, and Oz, somewhat, were very picky about allowing yachts to leave on sea voyages, and could cut a passage short and order a return to port, or even prevent untying the lines to begin with, if the authorities thought a vessel ill-equipped or unprepared. Thought this was because like everything down under, terrible monsters surround you and everything is 10x as dangerous (not even being sarcastic, I seriously don't understand how people survive in Oz), the sea is big, and SAR is stretched. Is this not the case? I had thought SAR there wielded much more authority to force an abandonment, and if they haven't, then, they must at least believe he can get home. And if they gave him permission to leave, they are stuck taking care of him!


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Old 12-09-2015, 04:57   #89
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Re: Urgent Assistance To Find Missing Australian Yacht

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Ahhh, stick around FV! I love learning from your experience, and I've only had positive experiences with the folks on the big boats 'out there.' You must be a true kind heart too, considering you went back to that other thread to help out NBY!

I had read on past threads that NZ, in particular, and Oz, somewhat, were very picky about allowing yachts to leave on sea voyages, and could cut a passage short and order a return to port, or even prevent untying the lines to begin with, if the authorities thought a vessel ill-equipped or unprepared. Thought this was because like everything down under, terrible monsters surround you and everything is 10x as dangerous (not even being sarcastic, I seriously don't understand how people survive in Oz), the sea is big, and SAR is stretched. Is this not the case? I had thought SAR there wielded much more authority to force an abandonment, and if they haven't, then, they must at least believe he can get home. And if they gave him permission to leave, they are stuck taking care of him!


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To best of my knowledge, SAR authorities down under have no powers to force abandonment.

In fact many SAR "authorities" in inshore and near shore areas are volunteers with very little powers at all except the power of wanting to help in any way they can.

I dont recall any safety inspections for any vessels departing Oz but that may have changed lately. NZ does require NZ flagged vessels to have fairly stringent safety equipment before allowing departure.
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Old 12-09-2015, 05:17   #90
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Re: Urgent Assistance To Find Missing Australian Yacht

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I dont recall any safety inspections for any vessels departing Oz but that may have changed lately.
It hadn't changed 3 weeks ago when I left from Cairns
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