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Old 28-01-2016, 19:11   #46
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Re: Top 50 Murder Cities - Includes Jamaica & Brazil

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I am with sailorboy1 on this one. These numbers are not only useless, they are misleading. Any cop will tell you it's not the city but the location within the city and the time of day that are relevant. Wander a poor ghetto at night you are wearing a target whether in Rio, NYC, St Louis or Jamaica. If. like me you fear street crime, then stay out of dubious situations. After all, how many of you have ever heard of an armed robbery or a murder involving strangers in a marina anywhere in the world?
Mate, in my five years in the Caribbean I had one friend stabbed (climbaboard at anchor in Dominica) another pair severely beaten (climbaboard at anchor in Antigua) as well as a fellow commercial captain shot to death:

Another murder in Antigua – SuperYacht World

… as well as many other incidents I heard of, confirmed, involving violent robbery, assault theft and murder, of sailors.

Just take a troll through the Piracy Pages on noonsite, tot up the violence in the caribbean versus the rest of the world, and get back to me when you have noticed what is going on, to tell me there is no correlation
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Old 28-01-2016, 19:50   #47
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Re: Top 50 Murder Cities - Includes Jamaica & Brazil

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Funny phase in response to turning into a gun thread

not the end of page 2 yet on my view
Yea, so you saw what I did there.
That was page 3 on my view.

I would suggest everybody ought to carry firearms with them but I know better.
Besides who's gonna have one with them on vacation? Or on the beach.
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Old 28-01-2016, 20:32   #48
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Re: Top 50 Murder Cities - Includes Jamaica & Brazil

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So… for those Americans who worry about violence abroad, spread your sails wide, and you will find it drops off remarkably!
Agreed MF, although I'd just like to point out that I think Canada is still part of the "Americas", and it doesn't show up at all on the list. Point your bows north my friends. The waters may be cool, but we promise not to shoot you ... unless you make fun us saying "sorry" all the time. Or worse, if you insist on calling Bud, Coors, Heineken, Corona, or Blue "BEER." Then there's gonna be trouble .

This list is interesting, but as many others have said, only skates the surface of reality. The fact is, most homicides occur between people who are connected to each other. Most murders happen between family, friends or close connections. And most non-familiar homicides occur as part of some other high-value crime event.

The point is, murder is rarely random.

As a traveller I've learned to stay away from illegal activity (drugs being the big one), stay out of known trouble areas, listen to locals, and remain aware of any change in activity around me. This doesn't mean I'm immune from crime and violence, but it's not an irrational fear that prevents me from living and exploring.
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Old 28-01-2016, 21:17   #49
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Re: Top 50 Murder Cities - Includes Jamaica & Brazil

Maybe all that crime in Brazil is due to all that big booty to be had there.....or so I've been told.
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Old 28-01-2016, 22:39   #50
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Re: Top 50 Murder Cities - Includes Jamaica & Brazil

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Yes, it is sad to see the increase in problems in Honduras. We used to do lot of road trips in mainland Honduras, but no more.

Exclude mainland Honduras from your cruising options...lots of problems along the coast in recent years.
I hate to say it but I wouldn't blame anyone for being at least a little unsure of visiting there right now. Here is a travel website that might be of some help for anyone planning a trip to the area:
Honduras Travel - Visitors Guide to Honduras Vacation
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Old 28-01-2016, 22:51   #51
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Re: Top 50 Murder Cities - Includes Jamaica & Brazil

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Maybe all that crime in Brazil is due to all that big booty to be had there.....or so I've been told.
In Brazil in partucular its social problem brought about by the urbanization of the population of uneducated and unskilled people who in times past would have been active members of their agrarian village life. But who now find themselves in large cities in urban slums surrounded by middle class wealth and prosperity. Then add to this picture the country's economic fortunes whereby in good times a certain amount of these favela dwellers are able to find menial unskilled work when there is an economic downturn their fortunes turn desperate overnight. So what do you have. You have a perfect environment for increased crime brought about by the underclass who want "things" and others who are desperate to even eat who turn to violent crime to get what they want. Overlay on top of this the desperation of those addicted to drugs and you have a perfect storm for awful crime.

Brazil has become more dangerous as it has sunk into recession. The people are becoming more desperate. And it is no coincidence that Venezuela that now has a 600% inflation rate and food shortages is also a hell hole of violent crime.

Having said all that, I know that if you stay in "good" areas even in these parts you are most likely going to be OK. The middle class and wealthy live their lives in golden cages in gated communities or in heavily policed suburbs. I know friends of mine in Argentina who sometimes holiday on the beaches of Brazil who would only stay in a fenced off and guarded resort. Like I said earlier it is good to be aware of the dangers and take precautions accordingly.
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Old 28-01-2016, 23:13   #52
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Re: Top 50 Murder Cities - Includes Jamaica & Brazil

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I am with sailorboy1 on this one. These numbers are not only useless, they are misleading. Any cop will tell you it's not the city but the location within the city and the time of day that are relevant. Wander a poor ghetto at night you are wearing a target whether in Rio, NYC, St Louis or Jamaica. If. like me you fear street crime, then stay out of dubious situations. After all, how many of you have ever heard of an armed robbery or a murder involving strangers in a marina anywhere in the world?
There are no ghettos where I live, where I wouldn't go during night. I think it does have some correlation with the murder rate... I also like to get out of the marina and see the actual cities I visit. I still don't expect to get murdered anywhere, regardless of the murder rate.

That said, in my youth I've been in a situation where a knife was out three times and been mugged once, threatened with a syringe. All in safe cities and good neighborhoods. All situations that in retrospect would have been easily avoidable.

Still, those statistics for sure reflect to some degree the general safety of a city. As someone above said, behaving cautiously in a higher risk environment is probably prudent. I know I did not carry valuables when going drinking in Rio and walked away quickly when there was a hint of trouble - because I knew in advance there was a real risk of being mugged. Different behavior totally from a night out in Helsinki or Shanghai.
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Old 29-01-2016, 01:33   #53
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Re: Top 50 Murder Cities - Includes Jamaica & Brazil

What's up in Baltimore once depicted as home to posh American society?
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Old 29-01-2016, 04:15   #54
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Re: Top 50 Murder Cities - Includes Jamaica & Brazil

Good to see Juarez Mexico is now a safe place to visit, guess they ran out of people to murder and moved on...

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Old 29-01-2016, 04:43   #55
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Re: Top 50 Murder Cities - Includes Jamaica & Brazil

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Originally Posted by Muckle Flugga View Post
Mate, in my five years in the Caribbean I had one friend stabbed (climbaboard at anchor in Dominica) another pair severely beaten (climbaboard at anchor in Antigua) as well as a fellow commercial captain shot to death:

Another murder in Antigua – SuperYacht World

… as well as many other incidents I heard of, confirmed, involving violent robbery, assault theft and murder, of sailors.

Just take a troll through the Piracy Pages on noonsite, tot up the violence in the caribbean versus the rest of the world, and get back to me when you have noticed what is going on, to tell me there is no correlation
Absolutely right.

The numbers don't have any kind of precision, but that doesn't mean they are useless or meaningless.

Some parts of the world are vastly more violent -- orders of magnitude more violent -- than others. That's just a fact. The violence can sometimes be avoided by appropriate behavior and avoiding certain neighborhoods etc. etc. etc., but not always. We are not immune on our boats -- cruisers are, unfortunately, also victims of crime, and not all that rarely in some places. And the risks are very different, in different parts of the world, and the numbers, while not precise, do give a roughly valid, approximate picture of these differences.
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Old 29-01-2016, 06:08   #56
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Re: Top 50 Murder Cities - Includes Jamaica & Brazil

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Agreed MF, although I'd just like to point out that I think Canada is still part of the "Americas", and it doesn't show up at all on the list. Point your bows north my friends. The waters may be cool, but we promise not to shoot you ... unless you make fun us saying "sorry" all the time. Or worse, if you insist on calling Bud, Coors, Heineken, Corona, or Blue "BEER." Then there's gonna be trouble .

This list is interesting, but as many others have said, only skates the surface of reality. The fact is, most homicides occur between people who are connected to each other. Most murders happen between family, friends or close connections. And most non-familiar homicides occur as part of some other high-value crime event.

The point is, murder is rarely random.


As a traveller I've learned to stay away from illegal activity (drugs being the big one), stay out of known trouble areas, listen to locals, and remain aware of any change in activity around me. This doesn't mean I'm immune from crime and violence, but it's not an irrational fear that prevents me from living and exploring.
Agreed to BOLD no 1! As to BOLD no 2… a river of money following a river of drugs in an impoverished environment leads to problems of all kinds. This is, IMHO, what is wrong with the Caribbean region in general. Aside from those factors, the population is lovely, sweet natured, and good. And of course the violence is episodic, and difficult to predict. I became too blase in the end. Too blase. Easy to do. But the fact remains that the equatorial and sub tropical areas of the Americas are the most dangerous peacetime zones on earth. This has been my experience as well… as is also borne out in these statistics.
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Old 29-01-2016, 06:18   #57
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Re: Top 50 Murder Cities - Includes Jamaica & Brazil

I'm far more terrified of the entire U.S. than most places on that list.
U.S. is the only place I have ever had a gun pointed at me. Few weeks later ditched my American citizenship.
Learned my lesson well, don't ask for directions from a cop!
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Old 29-01-2016, 06:45   #58
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Re: Top 50 Murder Cities - Includes Jamaica & Brazil

I am surprised Gaza never made it on the list which had over 5000 murders a year or so back,and continues on a daily basis.........
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Old 29-01-2016, 06:56   #59
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I am surprised Gaza never made it on the list which had over 5000 murders a year or so back,and continues on a daily basis.........
I think the lists are person on person...
State sponsored is not included..
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Old 29-01-2016, 06:56   #60
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Re: Top 50 Murder Cities - Includes Jamaica & Brazil

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I'm far more terrified of the entire U.S. than most places on that list.
U.S. is the only place I have ever had a gun pointed at me. Few weeks later ditched my American citizenship.
Learned my lesson well, don't ask for directions from a cop!
That must be an interesting story.
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