Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 27-04-2004, 12:12   #1
Old Salts
 
bobola's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Kansas City, MO
Posts: 115
Thinking Cuba ? Think Again !

(I thought that this post belonged in the Piracy section - read it and you will understand)

This new proclamation from George Bush (lifted from this white house web site; http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/relea...040226-11.html), which was signed into law on 2/26/2004, allows the feds to seize your USA or foreign flagged vessel (in USA territorial waters) after they kick you off it, if they think you are planning to travel to Cuba.

This means that a Canadian sailor anywhere in the US territorial waters risks losing their boat if the Feds think you may sail to Cuba. This is crazy…but it's real.

(Read sections 1 & 2 very carefully…..)

Expanding the Scope of the National Emergency and Invocation of Emergency Authority Relating to the Regulation of the Anchorage and Movement of Vessels Into Cuban Territorial Waters
By the President of the United States of America
A Proclamation

By the authority vested in me by the Constitution and the laws of the United States of America, in order to expand the scope of the national emergency declared in Proclamation 6867 of March 1, 1996, based on the disturbance or threatened disturbance of the international relations of the United States caused by actions taken by the Cuban government, and in light of steps taken over the past year by the Cuban government to worsen the threat to United States international relations, and,

WHEREAS the United States has determined that Cuba is a state-sponsor of terrorism and it is subject to the restrictions of section 6(j)(1)(A) of the Export Administration Act of 1979, section 620A of the Foreign Assistance Act of 1961, and section 40 of the Arms Export Control Act;

WHEREAS the Cuban government has demonstrated a ready and reckless willingness to use excessive force, including deadly force, against U.S. citizens, in the ostensible enforcement of its sovereignty, including the February 1996 shoot-down of two unarmed U.S.-registered civilian aircraft in international airspace, resulting in the deaths of three American citizens and one other individual;

WHEREAS the Cuban government has demonstrated a ready and reckless willingness to use excessive force, including deadly force, against U.S. citizens and its own citizens, including on July 13, 1995, when persons in U.S.-registered vessels that entered into Cuban territorial waters suffered injury as a result of the reckless use of force against them by the Cuban military, and including the July 1994 sinking of an unarmed Cuban-registered vessel, resulting in the deaths of 41 Cuban citizens;

WHEREAS the Cuban government has impounded U.S.-registered vessels in Cuban ports and forced the owners, as a condition of release, to violate U.S. law by requiring payments to be made to the Cuban government;

WHEREAS the entry of any U.S.-registered vessels into Cuban territorial waters could result in injury to, or loss of life of, persons engaged in that conduct, due to the potential use of excessive force, including deadly force, against them by the Cuban military, and could threaten a disturbance of international relations;
WHEREAS the unauthorized entry of vessels subject to the jurisdiction of the United States into Cuban territorial waters is in violation of U.S. law and contrary to U.S. policy;

WHEREAS the objectives of U.S. policy regarding Cuba are the end of the dictatorship and a rapid, peaceful transition to a representative democracy respectful of human rights and characterized by an open market economic system;

WHEREAS a critical initiative by the United States to advance these U.S. objectives is to deny resources to the repressive Cuban government, resources that may be used by that government to support terrorist activities and carry out excessive use of force against innocent victims, including U.S. citizens;

WHEREAS the unauthorized entry of U.S.-registered vessels into Cuban territorial waters is detrimental to the foreign policy of the United States, which is to deny monetary and material support to the repressive Cuban government, and, therefore, such unauthorized entries threaten to disturb the international relations of the United States by facilitating the Cuban government's support of terrorism, use of excessive force, and continued existence;

WHEREAS the Cuban government has over the course of its 45-year existence repeatedly used violence and the threat of violence to undermine U.S. policy interests. This same regime continues in power today, and has since 1959 maintained a pattern of hostile actions contrary to U.S. policy interests. Among other things, the Cuban government established a military alliance with the Soviet Union, and invited Soviet forces to install nuclear missiles in Cuba capable of attacking the United States, and encouraged Soviet authorities to use those weapons against the United States; it engaged in military adventurism in Africa; and it helped to form and provide material and political support to terrorist organizations that sought the violent overthrow of democratically elected governments in Central America and elsewhere in the hemisphere allied with the United States, thereby causing repeated disturbances of U.S. international relations;

WHEREAS the Cuban government has recently and over the last year taken a series of steps to destabilize relations with the United States, including threatening to abrogate the Migration Accords with the United States and to close the U.S. Interests Section, and Cuba's most senior officials repeatedly asserting that the United States intended to invade Cuba, despite explicit denials from the U.S. Secretaries of State and Defense that such action is planned, thereby causing a sudden and worsening disturbance of U.S. international relations;

WHEREAS U.S. concerns about these unforeseen Cuban government actions that threaten to disturb international relations were sufficiently grave that on May 8, 2003, the United States warned the Cuban government that political manipulations that resulted in a mass migration would be viewed as a "hostile act;"

NOW, THEREFORE, I, GEORGE W. BUSH, President of the United States of America, by the authority vested in me by the Constitution and the laws of the United States of America, including section 1 of title II of Public Law 65-24, ch. 30, June 15, 1917, as amended (50 U.S.C. 191), sections 201 and 301 of the National Emergencies Act (50 U.S.C. 1601 et seq.), and section 301 of title 3, United States Code, in order to expand the scope of the national emergency declared in Proclamation 6867 of March 1, 1996, and to secure the observance of the rights and obligations of the United States, hereby authorize and direct the Secretary of Homeland Security (the "Secretary") to make and issue such rules and regulations as the Secretary may find appropriate to regulate the anchorage and movement of vessels, and authorize and approve the Secretary's issuance of such rules and regulations, as authorized by the Act of June 15, 1917.

Section 1. The Secretary may make rules and regulations governing the anchorage and movement of any vessel, foreign or domestic, in the territorial waters of the United States, which may be used, or is susceptible of being used, for voyage into Cuban territorial waters and that may create unsafe conditions, or result in unauthorized transactions, and thereby threaten a disturbance of international relations. Any rule or regulation issued pursuant to this proclamation may be effective immediately upon issuance as such rule or regulation shall involve a foreign affairs function of the United States.

Sec. 2. The Secretary is authorized to inspect any vessel, foreign or domestic, in the territorial waters of the United States, at any time; to place guards on any such vessel; and, with my consent expressly hereby granted, take full possession and control of any such vessel and remove the officers and crew and all other persons not specifically authorized by the Secretary to go or remain on board the vessel when necessary to secure the rights and obligations of the United States.

Sec. 3. The Secretary may request assistance from such departments, agencies, officers, or instrumentalities of the United States as the Secretary deems necessary to carry out the purposes of this proclamation. Such departments, agencies, officers, or instrumentalities shall, consistent with other provisions of law and to the extent practicable, provide requested assistance.

Sec. 4. The Secretary may seek assistance from State and local authorities in carrying out the purposes of this proclamation. Because State and local assistance may be essential for an effective response to this emergency, I urge all State and local officials to cooperate with Federal authorities and to take all actions within their lawful authority necessary to prevent the unauthorized departure of vessels intending to enter Cuban territorial waters.

Sec. 5. All powers and authorities delegated by this proclamation to the Secretary may be delegated by the Secretary to other officers and agents of the United States Government unless otherwise prohibited by law.

Sec. 6. Any provisions of Proclamation 6867 that are inconsistent with the provisions of this proclamation are superseded to the extent of such inconsistency.

Sec. 7. This proclamation shall be immediately transmitted to the Congress and published in the Federal Register.

IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand this twenty-sixth day of February, in the year of our Lord two thousand four, and of the Independence of the United States of America the two hundred and twenty-eighth.

GEORGE W. BUSH
__________________

__________________
Bob...
bobola is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-04-2004, 12:38   #2
Now on the Dark Side: Stink Potter.
 
CSY Man's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Ft. Lauderdale
Boat: 2001 Albin 28TE.
Posts: 3,399
Images: 115
Why can't he just run the country, improve the economy and get an occasional blow-job like Clinton?

Less dead soldiers and less problems for all of us would be the result.

Somebody ought to vote that guy back to his farm in Texas pretty soon.
So the rest of us can go sailing in piece and keep our boats....
__________________

__________________
CSY Man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-04-2004, 13:33   #3
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Macatawa Michigan
Boat: Amanda Faye 61' Custom Irwin aftcockpit ketch
Posts: 1,414
Images: 106
I would very much like to see political items stay on another board that I like. Is it possible to leave this one for cruising and boating?
__________________
irwinsailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-04-2004, 13:42   #4
Now on the Dark Side: Stink Potter.
 
CSY Man's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Ft. Lauderdale
Boat: 2001 Albin 28TE.
Posts: 3,399
Images: 115
I would think this thread very much belong on a Cruisers Forum.

The topic is rather important to cruisers....
__________________
CSY Man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-04-2004, 13:56   #5
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Macatawa Michigan
Boat: Amanda Faye 61' Custom Irwin aftcockpit ketch
Posts: 1,414
Images: 106
CSY I do agree that it does belong here as the first post is about cruising. I am talking about your comments in the second post that are political.
__________________
irwinsailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-04-2004, 15:13   #6
Now on the Dark Side: Stink Potter.
 
CSY Man's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Ft. Lauderdale
Boat: 2001 Albin 28TE.
Posts: 3,399
Images: 115
Okay Irwing sailor, I see yer point, but disagree.

In this case and in this topic, cruising and politics go hand in hand.

As a US Citizen I very much enjoy my right to free speech, and the rigth to travel.

Or I did....
__________________
CSY Man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-04-2004, 17:58   #7
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 367
Images: 11
I'll have to agree with irwinsailor on this one. Talk about sailing to Cuba, getting around restrictions, or what ever. IMHO leave the political bashing for other boards. There are plenty of other boards for political rants and I am glad this one has steered clear of them. Try lats and atts for the political ranting and complaining about Jimmy Buffett. Leave this site to practical and positive cruising discussions.

Thanks.
__________________
exposure is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-04-2004, 18:50   #8
Now on the Dark Side: Stink Potter.
 
CSY Man's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Ft. Lauderdale
Boat: 2001 Albin 28TE.
Posts: 3,399
Images: 115
"Talk about sailing to Cuba, getting around restrictions,"

But can't voice opinions about the one who put the restrictions in place..???
__________________
CSY Man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-04-2004, 03:56   #9
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Gladwin Mi.
Posts: 148
Political feelings bloom forcefully,

in this country (U.S.), every four years. Usually fed off of male bovine excrement thrown on the flowerbed of debate in cubic yard amounts. Mr CSY man, and others, please save this debate for other places. I love to impress others with my well founded political conclusions delivered at an ever rising vocal volume , accompianed by my red face and a pulse rate just short of the heart attack point! But please , Sir and Others, I like the calm here, I like the self imposed politeness people use to talk to one another here, even on opposing sides of an issue as volatile as guns. I hear the political debate all the time. To the heated disscussions taking place " Out there" , this place is an air conditioned bar with a cold Amber Bock in a frosted mug.
So I'll raise a brimming mug to all political viewpoints with this toast :, " One side, the other side, but preferably OUTSIDE ".
*** SIGH***
__________________
29cascadefixer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-04-2004, 06:22   #10
Now on the Dark Side: Stink Potter.
 
CSY Man's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Ft. Lauderdale
Boat: 2001 Albin 28TE.
Posts: 3,399
Images: 115
Easy for you guys to be calm about this issue and the moron that impossed it:

If ya live in South Florida it becomes a bit more personal, sombody could really take yer boat and put ya away 'cause they thought ya were thinking about going to Cuba...

Don't see it yet?

How about if ya were on the Great Lakes and some Government employee could impound yer boat and arrested yer family 'cause they thought ya were sailing to Canada.?

Would leave the debate 'till election time then?

Don't what what planet some of ya guys are from, but I take this assault on my freedom pretty personally, I sure as hell did not spend all that time and money on a cruising boat just to have it confiscated by some bobbon that can't ready without moving his lips.
__________________
CSY Man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-04-2004, 06:43   #11
Now on the Dark Side: Stink Potter.
 
CSY Man's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Ft. Lauderdale
Boat: 2001 Albin 28TE.
Posts: 3,399
Images: 115
Furthermore

(Spooling up here after the first cup of hi-test coffe)

Say ya are sailing to the Bahamas and yer engine stops, and the roller furling jams in a squall: Ya are being blown of course and getting closer to Cuba.
The Coast Guard picks ya up, takes yer boat away and put ya and yer family in Gitmo Bay as enemies of state.


Perfectly fine, and not important enough to air one this forum?

I think not.

If the above seems out of taste for this "air conditioned bar", then I will bow out and drop it as per admin and the moderator.
In the meantime I think the law, and the guy who signed it needs to be put under the microscope and then some.
__________________
CSY Man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-04-2004, 09:19   #12
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Gladwin Mi.
Posts: 148
Geez CSY ,

had no idea that you felt this strongly about this ! I stated how I felt about talkin' politics here. You see it differently evidently. The board admin has never stated that you couldn't talk politics here, I didn't say you couldn't- I just said I preferred to not talk 'em. I have valued your input on several subjects posted here, I don't want to make you mad enough to leave. I will back down and leave the floor to you , Sir.
__________________
29cascadefixer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-04-2004, 11:01   #13
Now on the Dark Side: Stink Potter.
 
CSY Man's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Ft. Lauderdale
Boat: 2001 Albin 28TE.
Posts: 3,399
Images: 115
No problem on upsetting me enough to leave.
I was talking about dropping the subject, not me personally dropping out...

Yes ya are right however that I feel strongly about it.

I am sure ya would too: Say ya go to West Marine and buy a chart or cruising guide for Cuba.
Somebody rats on ya and the authorities comes down to the dock and confiscates yer vessel and throws yer arse in the slammer.

Perfectly legal according to this law that W signed.

Things were a bit better under the Clinton administration, then there was some kind of "don't ask-don't tell" policy in effect:

Yes, ya can sail to Cuba, just don't spend any money.

Sure we had 9/11 since, wery much aware of it, got kind of close to the action there and lucky to be alive, however, there is no indication that Castro were even remotely invloved.
Yet W thinks so, then passes this law we are talking about.

IMHO we should all protest and make noise about this law and perhaps somebody would listen.....Perhaps not.
At least we have a say at the polls.

Enough boaters made noise about the 300% increase in cruising permits to the Bahamas recently so the Bahamians backed down and gave everybody a 2 for 1 deal.
__________________
CSY Man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-04-2004, 11:05   #14
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 367
Images: 11
I don't disagree with your political ideals, but they were political, and not about a Cuba ban.

"Why can't he just run the country, improve the economy and get an occasional blow-job like Clinton?

Less dead soldiers and less problems for all of us would be the result.

Somebody ought to vote that guy back to his farm in Texas pretty soon.
So the rest of us can go sailing in piece and keep our boats...."


It gets my blood boiling also, but I come here to get away from it. There are a milllion places on the web to beat each other up over this topic, I prefer it not to be here as well.

As others say, I have valued your other comments, so please stick around. Perhaps we need a politcal section for these topics, then I could just ignore them.

And, there aren't too many places you could be on your way to the Bahamas and get blown to Cuba. So that would be a little suspect.

That's my last comment on the subject. Later, Woody
__________________
exposure is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-04-2004, 11:44   #15
Now on the Dark Side: Stink Potter.
 
CSY Man's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Ft. Lauderdale
Boat: 2001 Albin 28TE.
Posts: 3,399
Images: 115
Exposure:

Well, in some places Cuba is only 50 NM from the Bahamas.
The USCG frequently patrol Bahamian waters..Seen both cutters and helicopters over there.
If those guys thought ya were coming from or going to Cuba, then ya are toast according to the new law.

As for my political ideals: Well, what triggered the above comments was obviously the new law about confiscating boats and arresting owners, not some generic rant about W or his war.
I would also have stayed away from that hot potatoe if this here thread had not started.

Don't know that a section on genereal politics belongs on this forum, we are rather debating the above "maritime" law which is a clear and present danger to quite a few of us.

Or rather, I am the only one debating it.....
__________________

__________________
CSY Man is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
Cuba

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Thinking on getting a trimaran son_of_a_sailor3 Multihull Sailboats 12 08-04-2008 15:55
Over Thinking ksmith Marine Electronics 2 25-01-2008 14:08
Thinking... BobMeans Meets & Greets 10 07-11-2007 12:47



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 00:40.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.