Thinking Cuba ? Think Again !

[Tellie]

Lived in South Florida all my life, know more Cuban refugees than most. I don't want to get political at all, but I gotta go with Chief.

[Celestialsailor]

Originally Posted by Chief Engineer

Why do people want to go to a country that others are desperately trying to leave?

Why do you want to support a communist country with your dollars...Canadian or otherwise?

Geeez!!! What about the trillions we've given China!!!

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by TaoJones

Okay, before this thread starts down that treacherous path and the strong emotions it can arouse, let's all do our best to leave the politics out of it and keep it on sailing and cruising. Thank you.
TaoJones

Indeed.

I’m fairly certain that most of you are no more interested in hearing my socialist pro-Cuba propaganda, than I am in hearing about others reactionary anti-Castro ideology.
This isn't the place for that interesting debate.

[Dockhead]

In my humble opinion, the question about whether the U.S. government should presume to restrict the right of free human beings, its citizens, to sail wherever they please, is directly relevant to sailing and cruising, and so is an entirely appropriate topic for this board.

And one's opinion about it is not necessarily determined by one's general political views, and one's attitude about Castro is hardly relevant at all. Take me for example -- my politics are somewhere to the right of Atilla the Hun, and I think Communism is not just stupid, but evil besides. I think Castro is a nasty, vicious dictator. But I claim the right as a free man on the basis of natural law and the U.S. Constitution to sail wherever I damn well please, and I deny the right of the U.S. government to tell me otherwise, except only when a state of war exists.

That's the ranting part; if anyone is interested, I can calmly explain my actual reasons.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by sabray

I think its about pushing boundaries. As an American I am a result of a great mixing pot. It is not about support of a regime but a willingness to not condemn until I have seen the reality of what I am told. Im not going to Somolia yet.
We can if we travel wisely dilute tension and see each other as cultures with a difference but also a common need. We may even be friends.

Here, here. And you have every right to do that. You have the right to look around, see for yourself, and decide for yourself whether you agree with U.S. government policy or not; you even have the right to be a Communist if you want to, and to actually support Castro. It would be stupid in my opinion, but it is not against the law, nor can it be against the law in our system where every man has the right to his own opinion, and the right to freely express that opinion.

During the height of the Cold War, Americans were not restricted from visiting the Evil Empire itself, the Soviet Union. I took that chance in 1980, and it was the most fascinating and enlightening trip I had ever had up to that time.

Today we are not restricted from visiting the "Axis of Evil" countries like Iran and North Korea (and I'd kind of like to see Iran, actually). You can buy a ticket on one of various European airlines and hop right on a plane (after getting a visa, however) to Tehran or Pyongyang.

So we are not restricted from visiting Cuba because it has a nasty Communist regime. We are restricted from visiting Cuba for a very different reason -- because our government is using us -- using us illegally -- as pawns in its embargo on Cuba.

[Québec 1]

Hi,
Dockhead is right! Why should USA citizens not be allowed to go where ever they want?
Q1

p.s. If you really want to get rid of the Castro regime...allow a few thousand American entrepreneurs into Cuba and I wouldn't give the Castro Communist regime 6 months.

[Mule]

Originally Posted by Québec 1

Hi,
Dockhead is right! Why should USA citizens not be allowed to go where ever they want?
Q1

p.s. If you really want to get rid of the Castro regime...allow a few thousand American entrepreneurs into Cuba and I wouldn't give the Castro Communist regime 6 months.

Exactly! Cuba is one of the 3 greatest foreign policy blunders in modern times. Rates up there with Nam and Iraq, (Republican, Democrat, Republican, cronological order).

We made Castro what he is. Had big sugar been building a few schools, hospitals and highways while paying more than 10 cents an hour for sugar cane choppers Cuba would be an extension of South Florida today. Had they paid some taxes and the crook-dictator-Judus, Bastia been deposed and big sugar did something other than milk the country and its people dry the last 50+ years would have been altogether different. Eisenhower's biggest screw up. Hell we could have just made it a terrority, and by now a state or it could be like Puerto Rico and Guam among others.

Castro, b4 the eagle fell came to this country pleading for help, he got help alright, at Love Field, in Dallas, when the Secret Service threw his ass on a plane after he said that this countries policies were forcing him to turn to the Soviet Union.

Now for 50+ years the South Florida Cubans have been the tail wagging the dog USA, on Cuban foreign policy in the name of anti communism while we have crawled into bed with China, and last time I checked China is a Comnunist Country...go figger! Does the hypocracy ever end?

I am from Texas and I know the condition our state was in after W left, I watched him operate here, I watched him in DC and I must say this...sorry, just can't help it: Oliver Stone's movie "W" was dead on. An adult spoiled brat of a rich, powerful man that loathed his father. A brat that has spent his life trying to prove himself to his father. A father that throughout his life had no respect for his son, W. Liked and respected Jeb because Jeb had self discipline and an ethical backbone. Too bad W adopted Dick Cheney as his surrogate father.

We have witnessed a Coup in our country in year 2000 and the American Military used as an instrument of revenge so the sitting President could get the man, "that tried to kill my Daddy".

The South Florida Cubans were much of the swing vote that seated W in the debacual election in 2000, and they were rewarded, hell, I would not be surprised if a Cuban American Comittee wrote the legislation.

I will try not to post here like this again, but all this needed to be said, in light of the previous post.

[Tellie]

I've got no problem with anybodys opinion, right or wrong as I see it and I'm not interested in debating fools. But I find it interesting the consistant ability for the less than right leaning posts to stand, while a bit of Dejavu says the first less than left rebuttal posting shuts this thread down. Good Luck boys!

[FrankZ]

It would be appreciated if we can get this thread back on track and not debate the politics of it.

[Unicorn Dreams]

Unless something has changed that I missed, it's never been illegal for Americans to visit Cuba. You just can't sail from the USA directly to Cuba. Stop in the Bahamas or somewhere else and head on into Cuba,
Like I said, unless something changed that I missed, go for it...

[Cheechako]

I agree.... one way to change Cuba is to start going there, mixing it up etc. The place will fall to Democracy in a few years if the doors are open... The embargo for 45+ years has changed nothing... DUH

[camaraderie]

Let's see...the entire rest of the world is trading with and visiting Cuba for some time now. Nothing has changed. But if WE start trading and traveling there something will change? B.S.

[sailorgal]

Originally Posted by camaraderie

Let's see...the entire rest of the world is trading with and visiting Cuba for some time now. Nothing has changed. But if WE start trading and traveling there something will change? B.S.

Yeah, unfortunately if U.S. entrepreneurs start going to Cuba, it'll end up with a McDonalds or Starbucks on every corner. I'd like to visit before that happens. My cousin, who is German, loves visiting Cuba. As she says, it's not as "Americanized" as the rest of the Caribbean --- yet.

[slomotion]

I have no idea what kind of paperwork Cuba requires of American visitors. But, if you are an American and want to sail to Cuba, make sure you understand and have whatever that paperwork is. If you do not have the necessary paper work, try not to seek safe harbor or accidentally wind up there:

Sailing Adventure Lands Citrus County Couple In Cuba Jail

[Cheechako]

"Yeah, unfortunately if U.S. entrepreneurs start going to Cuba, it'll end up with a McDonalds or Starbucks on every corner.."
Yea, that will be the down side... it WILL change.... location. location, location.....