Thinking Cuba ? Think Again !

[Steve]

I do understand the frustration with the new ban, but I agree with the others that the political screaming from CSY man needs to be taken elsewhere. It would seem to me that discussion about how to deal with the problem rather than going on a tirade about the President would be the solution. I agree with you CSY man, debate it with yourself. The posting began as information, and you've attempted to turn it into a November election campaign. I'm brand new to this board - only found and joined it yesterday - and I really hope this isn't the flavor that I can expect from it. It will be yet another that gets deleted from my favorites list if it turns out to be so.

[CSY Man]

Hi Steve.

Not sure that the "frustration" is about a new ban.
Cuba has more or less been off limits for the last few years.

This deal is about somebody taking yer boat without reason.
If that does not justify "poltical screaming" as ya call it, then what does?

Maybe not a problem for you in Memhpis, but here in Florida it could be a big problem.

Have I attempted to turn it into a November election campaing?

Hmm, did not think so, not a Democrat or active in politics, nor have I ever voiced opinions on candidates in the past, BUT
this new law needs to be voted away, one way or the other.

The initial posting began as information ya said?
Sounded more like a warning to me.

[Steve]

While Memphis may not be Ft. Lauderdale, my marina and several others are very close to the Tennessee Tombigbee waterway on the Tennessee River. That connects us to Mobile Bay via a system of locks, therefore all points beyond. As a matter of fact, many boats make the trip every year, so we're not as isolated and as far back in the boonies as you may believe. However, the ranting and personal attacks on the President isn't the way to get something done about a law that I agree is a bad one. There are much better ways to get things done.

[CSY Man]

"the ranting and personal attacks on the President isn't the way to get something done"

Well, I'd say it is a good start.

Why the hang-ups on a couple of sentences about the guy that wrote the so-called Law?

The meat and potatoes in my postings have been about the law and how wrong and dangerous it is.

This thread is about piracy on the high seas:
I'd say I have been rather nice when I mentioned the pirate that wrote and signed the law.

As for cruising down from TN, good on you, but don't bring any Cuban charts on your vessel, you may loose it forever.
According to your President.

[irwinsailor]

There does seem to be some room for improvment in this law. What can we do to make the needed changes? Sould we write our congressman and senitors? If it needs to be changed then lets do something about it and not spend our time bitching about the President. Thank you.

[CSY Man]

"There does seem to be some room for improvment in this law. "

Understatement of the century Irwinsailor....

Yes, ya bet we can write the Congressmen and the Senators.

Consider it done from this end.

Wonder if one can also have the law challenged in The Supreme Court?
Any Legal Eagles out there?

In the meantime, I'll burn any Spanish dictionaries on my boat.


"Just because ya are not paranoid, does not mean somebody is not out to get ya"

(Old bumper sticker that does not seem so funny anymore)

[irwinsailor]

I think we may be on to something worthwhile here! To be truthfull I'm lazy about writing but I do know how to print something and send it. As CSY said ,is there someone who could write something that we could sign and send in????

[delmarrey]

How about a petition that can be taken around to marinas in the S.E. of the US and beyond if necessary, requesting a change in the written law. Then sending it off to the President and Homeland Security requesting it be easier, document wise, to travel to Cuba, if ya even wanna.

I believe the law was written to boost the security of the US and to put pressure on the Cuban government to change their attitude towards human rights.

I'm about 50/50 on the subject. But the way things are around there I'm not so sure I'd want to go there anyway, unless it was an emergency.

..............................._/)

[troppoboat]

My old Dad reckoned that these two subjects were not to be brought up in polite company. But I disagree American politics are much more interesting than in Oz, they are more like movie scripts (sex scenes included), Our PM is so straight he could lie in bed without creasing the sheets! Of course the gold medal would go to Italy's Balascone he invented the word meglomania well done! Further proof that true madness is defined but the inability to smell what you are shoveling. -Shane

[GordMay]

From “Soundings - Trade Only Today”

Boating-to-Cuba loophole is closing

The Bush administration is about to close a legal loophole used by boaters to visit Cuba, according to a published report, which indicates the change is part of a campaign to tighten travel restrictions between the United States and its communist neighbor.

For years American boaters have used the loophole in U.S. law that allowed them to cruise legally to Cuba if they could prove they hadn’t spent any money there, or were “fully hosted” by Havana’s Marina Hemingway, according to a report in this morning’s South Florida Sun-Sentinel.

But because it suspects “fully hosted” letters have been less than truthful in many cases,, the Bush administration has decided to close the loophole for good, according to the Sun-Sentinel report.

The elimination of the “fully hosted” provision compounds other recent embargo-tightening measures, the newspaper says, including a law announced in February which expands the U.S. government’s authority to inspect Cuba-bound vessels.

Also, two residents of Key West, Fla., were charged with violating the embargo after they organized several regattas to Cuba, according to the Sun-Sentinel report.

“Eliminating fully hosted travel, which has the potential for abuse, is an important step in stopping the flow of hard currency into [Fidel] Castro’s coffers,” U.S. Treasury Department spokesperson Molly Millerwise told the newspaper.

[BC Mike]

Meanwhile the US is increasing trade with China, they now purchase more goods from China than Japan. Canadians travel to Cuba and the ones I have spoken to had a nice visit. Communism will crumble from the kind of pressure Reagan provided if they pose a military threat or from financial inefficiencies. If they ( Cuba ) do not pose a military threat to the US I fail to see the logic with the US policy. But as old Oscer used to say, " they may know more things than you or I " We have had Cuban farmers visit our area as part of cultural exchanges. Going to Cuba as a US citizen should get a reprimand only, not boat seizures.
BC Mike C

[GordMay]

Calling all boaters from across Canada to attend RENDEZVOUS HAVANA - 2005
hosted by the INTERNATIONAL HEMINGWAY YACHT CLUB in Havana,
January 10-14, 2005.

If you are cruising the Bahamas or the Caribbean this year then be sure to include this featured gathering of Canadian power and sailboats at Cuba's only International Yacht Club located at the International Marina Hemingway in Havana.

The Commodore of the Yacht Club, Comodoro José Miguel Diaz Escrich, is well known to Canadian Boaters who have visited Cuba and from his many contacts with the Canadian boating associations. In 2003, Comodoro Escrich was an official guest of the Toronto International BoatShow and a featured presenter at the show. Since that visit many Canadian Yacht Clubs have established friendly reciprocal agreements with Club Nautico including the Royal Canadian Yacht Club, The National Yacht Club, the Royal Hamilton Yacht Club, Toronto Island Yacht Club, the Kingston Yacht Club, Mimico Cruising Club, BayPort Yachting Centre, Ashridges Bay Yacht Club, Port Credit Yacht Club, the Shellbacks Club, Women Sailors Association, Frenchman's Bay Yacht Club, Alexandra Yacht Club, and the Ontario Sailing Association.

We welcome all Canadian boaters to this special recreational boating event in Havana. Check out the planned activities, unique cruising opportunities, and images of Havana and Cuba. Then register now to secure a place for your boat and crew. This is a fantastic opportunity not to be missed.

http://www.internationalchallenge.org/cuba/
hosted by the INTERNATIONAL HEMINGWAY YACHT CLUB in Havana, January 10-14, 2005.

[SydneyTim]

Just to set peoples minds at rest on this one, this is an extract from Volume 69 No. 130 of the Federal Register, entitled “Unauthorized entry into Cuban Territorial Waters” it basically exempts foreign flagged vessels and US vessels stopping there under Force Majeure from the act.

(b) This subpart does not apply to:
Foreign vessels, as defined by 46 U.S.C.
2101(12), public vessels, as defined by
46 U.S.C. 2101(24) operated for noncommercial
purposes, or vessels of the
United States entering Cuban territorial
waters under force majeure.

[bvimatelot]

So, if I read Sydney Tim's post correctly, I can go to Cuba on a non US flagged vesel? Does this mean I can also go there direct from a US Port (in a non US flagged vessel)? I cant seem to get hold of 46 U.S.C. 2101(12), So I'm wondering exactly what the definition of a foreign vessel is: any enlightenment, anyone?

I've often wondered about the legality of USCG actions in boarding foreign flagged vessels in international waters....its happened to me a couple of times and is a bore....though I have to say that I have always been impressed with the politeness, correctness and general professionalism of the guys who boarded, even though I did not like them being armed and wearing heavy boots.... Tony

[hellosailor]

Tony, the USCG boarding of foreign flagged vessels on the high seas seems to be condoned, but I can't help thinkning that when the Brits did it, it led to the War of 1812, so it is probably illegal, immoral, and unethical, much as it may be necessary for defense in some cases.

46 U.S.C. 2101 can be easily found in any search engine. See
US CODE: Title 46,2101. General definitions

"(24) “public vessel” means a vessel that—
(A) is owned, or demise chartered, and operated by the United States Government or a government of a foreign country; and
(B) is not engaged in commercial service. "

So in plain English, they've exempted foreign flagged vessels (over which they had no legal power), government vessels (presumably being directed there by otherwise legal government decisions, i.e. a USCG vessel returning Cubans found at sea) and any vessels blown into Cuba by storm or other irresistable force.

Remember that provision applies to *vessels*. If you are a US citizen, you are still liable to all other restrictions on *your* travel to Cuba.