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Old 12-12-2012, 17:36   #16
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Re: The Science of Propane Safety

If research is more important to you than rectification at this point read the data here.. LPG Data

I don't have enough time in the day to explain everything you need to know if you wish to take such risks.

Good luck.
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Old 12-12-2012, 17:47   #17
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Re: The Science of Propane Safety

Why did I know asking some simple questions about the behavior of propane itself would ruffle so many feathers. Link to ABYC requirements below. I can be out of the cabin (away from danger) in less than 2 seconds to shut off the fuel. See section A-1.7 Cylinders, Valves, and Safety Devices. Does not require solenoid.

http://www.abycinc.org/committees/A-01.pdf
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Old 12-12-2012, 17:50   #18
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Re: The Science of Propane Safety

I think you are confusing people who don't like to go BOOM! with ruffled feathers.
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Old 12-12-2012, 17:50   #19
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I always turn solenoid off and close valve on the tank following use of LPG gas for Cooking or heat. I also do a leak test at the start of the season and again mid way. I daily do a sniff test in the bilge before my morning coffee. A sniffer is located at cabin sole level in the galley.

On one occasion, upon leaving the boat I found I didn't close the tank valve... This got me thinking about how I would deal with the presence of gas in the bilge. After getting crew off the boat, Would an "ignition proof" blower be safe to use to ensure a bilge is clear of LPG gas?

An additional sniffer would be good to have in the bilge as low as possible...
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Old 12-12-2012, 17:51   #20
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Re: The Science of Propane Safety

They don't spec what the vicinity of the appliance is but I am think six feet is in " the vicinity" of the appliance.
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Old 12-12-2012, 17:55   #21
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Re: The Science of Propane Safety

Would like to know about "ignition proof blower" in case of a significant leak.
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Old 12-12-2012, 18:06   #22
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Re: The Science of Propane Safety

1.7.3.1
The valve(s) or its control must be operable in the vicinity of the appliance(s) in the event of a fire at any appliance(s). If the cylinder shut-off valve is readily accessible from the vicinity of the appliance, the shut-off valve on the supply line is not required.

I do not think a mad dash to the cockpit qualifies as "operable in the vicinity"

Also you say "WE" liveaboard you may not worry about yourself or the boats near you but it seems you should care about the others living with you. I just do not understand why some argue so strongly against basic safety. these solenoid valves are not that expensive and last for years. Why are you so willing to risk yourself and those who live with you for 20-30 bucks? It really makes no sense to me. Some seem to think these safety rules are a waste of time and made up to make life difficult, they are there to set a standard so that everyone knows what the MINIMUM should be done to protect yourself and others from harm. would you fly with an airline that did not follow FFA rules? I do not understand why some have a hard time with that. Independence is great but so is common sense. Ok off my soapbox and I will not say another word about it.
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Old 12-12-2012, 18:10   #23
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Re: The Science of Propane Safety

Quote:
Originally Posted by Delancy View Post
Would like to know about "ignition proof blower" in case of a significant leak.
It would also depend on where the blower is located!

Just fix the solenoid NOW!
Your always going to get a little leak when cooking, which can dissipate in small amounts. But if your away from the boat and it's leaking, you could came back to a bomb. And don't say "I shut off the bottle when gone". People forget!

BTW the switch should not be too close to the stove.
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Old 12-12-2012, 18:12   #24
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Re: The Science of Propane Safety

Quote:
Originally Posted by Delancy View Post
Would like to know about "ignition proof blower" in case of a significant leak.
Ignition proof blowers are standard equipment on inboard gasoline powered boats or should be.
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Old 12-12-2012, 18:13   #25
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Re: The Science of Propane Safety

As long as your blower motor is above the three foot mark from the sole, i would say your ok,,,sending circulation air down through a vent pipe is the way to go,,NOT sucking fumes past a motor.
If you wish to have a Blower sucking fumes out of the lower spaces then you must use an intrinsically safe motor and circuit. something with a spark arrestor.

Quote:
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Would like to know about "ignition proof blower" in case of a significant leak.
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Old 12-12-2012, 18:18   #26
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Re: The Science of Propane Safety

+1
Logic rules..

Quote:
Originally Posted by delmarrey View Post
It would also depend on where the blower is located!

Just fix the solenoid NOW!
Your always going to get a little leak when cooking, which can dissipate in small amounts. But if your away from the boat and it's leaking, you could came back to a bomb. And don't say "I shut off the bottle when gone". People forget!

BTW the switch should not be too close to the stove.
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Old 12-12-2012, 18:40   #27
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Re: The Science of Propane Safety

I'll assume that you are working toward fixing the leak and address the question you asked.

The explosive limits on Propane are between 2.1% and 10.1% concentrations. The general rule is to not exceed 25% of the lower limit (0.5%).

When propane leaks it will tend to displace the air and concentrate on the floor and work its way to the bilge.

What ever air circulation that you have along with normal mixing (brownian) will dissipate the propane over time. We can call this the dissipation rate.

So as long as the dissipation rate if greater that the leak rate over any given time such that the concentration never reaches the lower explosive limit there will not be a BOOM.

If on the other hand if the leak rate is greater than the dissipation rate all you need is a source if ignition to have a very bad day....

Back to my first statement...
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Old 12-12-2012, 18:51   #28
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Re: The Science of Propane Safety

As others have said, A reasonable course of action is to track and repair the leak before anything drastic occurs.
Anyone using bottled gas should be vigilant in safety, and that means constant inspection of all fittings and valves.
PERIOD !!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Delancy View Post
Would like to know about "ignition proof blower" in case of a significant leak.
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Old 12-12-2012, 19:21   #29
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Re: The Science of Propane Safety

We could better advise you on this propane issue if you told use what kind of anchor you use. To be really safe in heavy weather I use 50' 1/4" clothes line, 10' of plastic chain (hanging lamp style) and a frying pan as kellet.
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Old 12-12-2012, 19:42   #30
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Re: The Science of Propane Safety

Almost blew rum and coke out my nose!!!
PMSL

QUOTE=RabidRabbit;1105909]We could better advise you on this propane issue if you told use what kind of anchor you use. To be really safe in heavy weather I use 50' 1/4" clothes line, 10' of plastic chain (hanging lamp style) and a frying pan as kellet.[/QUOTE]
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