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Old 12-08-2016, 14:51   #31
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Re: The danger of fire

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Originally Posted by poiu View Post
Sounds right. You can't go in though as that will release the extinguishant and let O2 in. Plus you may suffocate. So a hole for a hose in the right place might be best. Or sprinklers.
Whoops, another step.

Shut down any exhaust fan before the Halon. Outside air will still be getting in, though, which is why the water needs to follow quickly?
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Old 12-08-2016, 15:38   #32
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Re: The danger of fire

Fiberglass resin burns like greased paper. The smoke is very toxic. About the only positive is that it produces a pile of black hydrocarbon smoke that can under good conditions be seen for miles. Dry Chem extinguishers are minimally effective, because they only separate the fuel from air - they don't reduce the accumulated heat, so re-ignition is likely. Sooo.... Be sure to bolt down your batteries. Be able to flood your engine space with water, CO2, Halon, or all of the above from outside the space - you don't want to open it.
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Old 12-08-2016, 15:53   #33
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Re: The danger of fire

A couple of steps I've taken, maybe of value to someone: CO2 tanks are cheap - I have 40 pounds worth piped into my engine room in what amounts to a sprinkler system, and the valves are outside the engine room. I've got ordinary house smoke alarms in the engine room. Then, I have plugged holes above the engine room that fit the nozzle on a 20 pound Halon extinguisher. What I don't have and probably should is a good way to pipe water in. Oh, and I can close my main seacock (the only one open underway) from the salon above it by pulling a wire - I put the handle on such that horizontal is open, and pulling the wire moves it to vertical and closed. Finally, I have a separate battery under the instrument panel that can power radios and the like even if my wiring burns up or my house batteries are flooded by sea water.
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Old 13-08-2016, 01:33   #34
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Re: The danger of fire

There are fire extinguisher systems where a plastic tube is located near the items of concern, zig zagging around the boat and when the fire melts it, extinguishant is released exactly where it is needed. A pressure sensor switches the alarm on.

It wouldn't take much modification to connect the same tube up to a tank of pressurised water, or the boat supply even and have it discharge after the fire is extinguished, putting water this time where it is needed.
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Old 13-08-2016, 06:24   #35
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Re: The danger of fire

Can you cite a source? That's very interesting.
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Old 13-08-2016, 07:19   #36
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Re: The danger of fire

Dual action (combination) rate-of-rise and fixed temperature detectors, and/or UV flame detectors are often used in engine spaces.
(Fixed: 135F/57C -or- 200F/93C)
(Rate-of-Rise: increase 15F/8C per minute)
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Old 13-08-2016, 07:24   #37
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Re: The danger of fire

I just always sail with a retired firefighter
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Old 13-08-2016, 07:27   #38
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Re: The danger of fire

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I just always sail with a retired firefighter
oooohhh i want one..
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Old 13-08-2016, 07:40   #39
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Re: The danger of fire

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Originally Posted by tkeithlu View Post
Can you cite a source? That's very interesting.
These:

Fireflex
I installed their product in my plane also connected to an alarm system. They will work with you and might supply a T piece with a high pressure valve I expect. The website isn't working well, you'll have to get info manually.

Automatic Fire Suppression Systems by Firetrace Ltd.
Firetrace - Automatic Fire Suppression Systems
Same name, slick presentation, slick prices, but I don't know if it is the same company.

A similar, but alarm only system. Neat is that it allows you to set the temperature threshold. So a different one in an electrical panel:
https://kidde-fenwal.com/Public/Syst...-Heat-Detector
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Old 13-08-2016, 08:27   #40
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Re: The danger of fire

Quote:
Originally Posted by poiu View Post
These:

Fireflex
I installed their product in my plane also connected to an alarm system. They will work with you and might supply a T piece with a high pressure valve I expect. The website isn't working well, you'll have to get info manually.

Automatic Fire Suppression Systems by Firetrace Ltd.
Firetrace - Automatic Fire Suppression Systems
Same name, slick presentation, slick prices, but I don't know if it is the same company.

A similar, but alarm only system. Neat is that it allows you to set the temperature threshold. So a different one in an electrical panel:
https://kidde-fenwal.com/Public/Syst...-Heat-Detector
Very interesting. Thanks.
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Old 14-08-2016, 11:16   #41
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Re: The danger of fire

We've changed our onboard fire procedures based on this thread. Thanks for posting.

PFDs ON which are always in the cockpit or on us while underway.

Then I immedately look for the source and fight the fire. My wife tends to sending the mayday, ditchbag into dinghy, launch liferaft and dinghy. We keep a portable VHF in both the dinghy and ditchbag.

No more assigning jobs or discussions. A bucket of water will now be kept in the forward head while underway.... her idea.

Before reading this thread, we would have both fought the fire. I've had a fire onboard before, and it never occured to me that a fire would continue to self ignite. We've also had a house fire due to spontaneous combustion during the past two years, lucky our home and office have automatic sprinklers.

Coincidentally, we watched a powerboat burn up here in the harbor at the fuel dock just yesterday. It was completely engulfed and out of control within a few minutes, then sank just as the fire truck arrived.
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Old 14-08-2016, 11:43   #42
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Re: The danger of fire

I'll bet the fire was never out, but still burning inside the compartments. You really have to dig deep to make sure they are out. The fire was probably just beat back out of sight.
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Old 14-08-2016, 14:51   #43
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Re: The danger of fire

Add another. NO BREATHING SMOKE. Fighting a fire on a fiberglass boat has to be at arm's length. The smoke is very toxic. Get out before you or your wife have plastic coated lungs.
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Old 19-10-2016, 20:05   #44
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Re: The danger of fire

other considerations for fire detection - I work in the aviation industry, quite a few aircraft are fitted with a special kind of wire (we call them fire wire sensors) and a fire amplifier - if any point on the wire gets above a certain threshold, the amplifier triggers the alarm (can also be rigged to cut fuel, electric and fire the extinguishers) if the "average temperature" of the wire gets above a (much lower) threshold, the amplifier triggers the alarm (usually leaving the aircrew with the choice of action to take, but can be rigged as before)


another extinguisher option I've just become aware about is called the "elide fire ball" - its a self contained, self triggering device, about the size of a cantaloupe - filled with dry chemical.


there are a number of differing types of handheld extinguishers available, they are all good for different types of fire, with "AB(E) dry chemical" tending to be the most versatile - it works in 2 ways, one, it seperates the fuel from the air with a blanket of powder, but two (and more importantly) it attacks the chemistry of the fire..... much older types of dry chemical dont have the second action.... also, some types of dry chemical can harden in the bottom of the extinguisher if left to sit for long periods, so give them all a jolly good shake every month or so...


I have used hand held extinguishers "in anger" 3 times..... what I can tell you is this - they DO NOT, on their own, extinguish a fire totally. depending on where you are, and how big the fire is before you get the extinguisher to it, they are best used to knock the fire back enough to evacuate. (in one case -fire in a bed in an accommodation building- (2x 1.5Kg DCP bottles used), it knocked the fire down enough, we evacuated the building, called fireies...they arrived in under 2 minutes and finished the job (with large amounts of water))(second case -later turned out to be attempted murder by fire, idiot scored an own goal, I saved him and his partner and most of the house - (1x 1.5Kg DCP) the fire was large amounts of accelerant spread throughout the house, DCP knocked out about 80% of the flames.... fireies came and finished the job... with large amounts of water...)(third time, trailer boat with a fuel leak (1x 1lb DCP) knocked out the fire totally (was a very small fire as I got to it extremely fast), dumbass complained about the white powdery mess I'd made, re started his engine (complete with fuel leak) and drove off down the river......


when I bought a new boat, I took the 3 DCP extinguishers out of the old one and for a confidence test (3x 1lb units) ages 3 5 and 15 years, all showed green on the pressure guages. ALL FAILED the three year old unit spat maybe 1/4 of its contents a short distance, the 5 year old one shot maybe a teaspoonful a few inches, the 15 year one did absolutely nothing - was after this I learned about the different types of powder and to give them all a jolly good shake every month or so, and to replace (or at least have professionally serviced) every few years.

on your boat, have a very good critical think about how many extinguishers you need, and where they will be mounted.... my latest boat (only a few weeks ago) came with the only handheld extinguisher mounted in a cupboard under the sink.... most likely origin of a fire will be the spirit burner stove (between where the exit door is and where the extinguisher is mounted...) so, IMNSHO, whoever mounted the extinguisher is an idiot - if a fire starts, you have to go past it to get the extinguisher... I'm going to move it to the wall next to the companionway hatch, and I'm going to mount a number more up in the cockpit - in plain sight. first thoughts from the admiral - that wont look nice. after explaining the above, she has accepted my plan. PLEASE, do not let aesthetics rule over functionality of emergency equipment.
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