The controversy over "Captain Jay" continues

[Rakuflames]

Originally Posted by sailorchic34

My only issue is the functional engine bit. Some sailboats don't have engines and do nicely. The Pardey's did a bit O sailing without an engine. So maybe just having the ability to move is the important part...

Can't speak about other states, but Florida does not require a functional engine. If the boat can be sailed, it does not have to have a functional engine. In Jay's case, he had NO way to propel his home. That made it a floating trailer, and that CAN be regulated by local municipalities.

[sailorchic34]

Originally Posted by rognvald

"Please excuse my failed attempt at irony in re: the infamous Captain. However, would you suggest I relinquish my land rights to the Iroquois nation who hunted the woods and streams before my ownership. Or perhaps the deer, pheasant and coyotes who have lived here for millenia. Are they also entitled to my home?

Oh you own the house sure enough, well you and maybe a bank or two.... But the deer, etc., have a right to live too. If they live next door or in the woods down the street, its no biggy. Its where they live. They or their ancestors lived there first. It really should not be a problem if they still live nearby. Though the Realtor may not have disclosed that fact...

If you want to invite them in for tea or supper, that's your business.

[Bluewaters2812]

I have been following this thread for a week or more and one thing that strikes me is the amount of posts that seem to have been posted in an attempt to show just how "clever/intelligent/" or how "academic" the argument is. Some posts are more logical and practical and the latter is the way to stay focused so that a solution to the "Captain Jay problem" can be found.

Unless I have been raised on a completely different planet, I think that all decent people, regardless of social or financial standing will agree that it is completely unacceptable for anyone (regardless of social or financial standing), to trash the area around them, especially when "trashing" involves human excrement and the like.

I agree with the approach that every boat that is used as a live-aboard, even if it is for 1 month of a year, should be required to have some sort of propulsion (not both mechanical and sail but one or the other) and must be required to move a set distance. The distance required should be set by the residents of the area through their local government.

The next practical solution is to have an effective sanction that is enforceable by physical eviction within a short period of time in the case of non-compliance of either the movement or propulsion of the vessel.

Now before the bleeding hearts brigade jump in here, I am not suggesting that the evicted person be left out in the cold streets. He should be taken to a temporary shelter, from where he/she can be assisted to re-integrate into society in an acceptable manner.

I am totally against an over-regulated society, such as is the case in molly-coddled Britain; but I am for sensible regulation where it is not motivated by profit or greed under the guise of "entrepreneurialism".

It seems that the Captain Jay issue is "caught in Irons". All of these "intelligent debates" are freezing the issue into inaction. It is the local population that MUST take the helm and steer the issue onto a course that will give direction, without "penalising" the law-abiding sailor, who complies with common decency and modern social acceptability when it comes to the disposal of his or her human excrement.

I await to be bled all over by the BH Brigade.

[Therapy]

Originally Posted by Don Lucas

so I did a web search on Captai Jay and still do't know what he has to do with the sign that was posted at the start of this thread

after reading all I could find on him, mosting in The Patch, he doesn't even sound like the same guy as he is made out in this thread

he does't sound like a bum, just someoe of limited funds who has had some bad luck

maybe it is time to just close this discussion and let some find a ew cause to get all whipped up on

It's a photo-shopped sign.

The Patch reporters don't really know Jay. It is those that have actually interacted with him (not interviewed = quite different) that know he is a woe-is-me storyteller. If you go back and read from those that know him and of him you will be able to gain a clearer picture.

[knothead]

I really wanted to stay out of this thread, but I feel I need to speak up about the continued and repeated claim that Jay was dumping his feces overboard when he lived on the boat. No one knows this to be a fact. He certainly didn't dispose of his dog's waste on shore, but unless someone witnessed him actually dumping or pumping something over the side, there is no evidence that he disposed of his own waste improperly. He was anchored near enough to have simply used the restroom on the same beach he was grounded on. He could have peed in a bottle and carried it ashore every morning when he visited the crapper. Since the beginning of this whole affair people have been speculating about things that they have no certainty of. It's completely unfair to continue to state that Jay was dumping his sewage into the bay. Please stop it. Jay is no longer a part of the problem. How about we just quit disparaging the man. The issue can continue to be discussed without referring to a specific person.

[sailorchic34]

Originally Posted by Bluewaters2812

Now before the bleeding hearts brigade jump in here, I am not suggesting that the evicted person be left out in the cold streets. He should be taken to a temporary shelter, from where he/she can be assisted to re-integrate into society in an acceptable manner.

In the USA, the homeless generally are not assisted to re-integrate into society at all. It would be nice if that was the case. If they are very lucky, they will find a cot and a meal at a homeless shelter run by a church. Most of the homeless in the US live on the streets, or under highway overpasses, etc.

BTW there are no public toilets here in the US. So the homeless on the streets have few options for...er... "waste management".

IF there were resources for the homeless here in the US like in the EU or UK, I would be right there with you. Get them into a shelter and get them back in society. Other then maybe food stamps (money for basic food) and very basic medical care, the US government does not in any way support homeless people.

Food stamps BTW, probably are not an option for the homeless as people on food stamps are required to mail in a form every so often. Hard to get the form in the mail without a mail box. So while its possible for the homeless to receive food stamps, many have a hard time meeting the requirements.

[Coops]

Originally Posted by sailorchic34

BTW there are no public toilets here in the US.

Is that true? What happens if you go to a park for the day or something like that? Do you mean that there are no toilets at all or that they are somehow privately owned? Not trying to create an arguement with you, lovely lady, just that it seems very unusual to us here in Oz that statement.

Coops.

[Target9000]

Originally Posted by Coops

Is that true? What happens if you go to a park for the day or something like that? Do you mean that there are no toilets at all or that they are somehow privately owned? Not trying to create an arguement with you, lovely lady, just that it seems very unusual to us here in Oz that statement.

Coops.

There are toilets available for use in most public buildings and parks during usual business hours. However, there aren't just toilets about open all day for anyone to use.

Privately owned toilets are an option. I've yet to find a McDonald's that would complain if you walked in and went directly to the restroom.

[Coops]

Thanks for that reply. We have some of ours closed at night as well, but there are some open all hours, and, some of those you may not want to visit during the night depending where they are. Just had this vision of folks in parks all running behind trees or something when i read that you had none.

Coops.

[hellosailor]

"BTW there are no public toilets here in the US. "
Sailorchic, I suggest that you leave Kulifornia and take an extended tour of the real United States. There are indeed public toilets, although following our prudish Pilgrim ancestors we tend to hide them and make them few. When SONY built a fancy new building in Manhattan over a decade ago, part of the permitting required public access to the extra toilets installed on the ground floor, and they are among the "shhh! don't tell anyone!" cleanest hidden public toilets in Manhattan. Very popular when there's a parade down the block on 5th Avenue, as there is almost every summer weekend.

And to the contrary...
"I've yet to find a McDonald's that would complain if you walked in and went directly to the restroom." Target, I can introduce you to a lot of urban McD's that don't complain at all if you do that, because until you come to the front counter and ask for the KEY, you're not getting in that bathroom at all. A policy which many gas stations follow as well, even on the interstates, even when the bathroom access has been moved indoors in the back of the grocery section.

The US has a long-standing sickness about public bathrooms and bodily functions but I suppose when you compare that to the many nations that have a long-standing tradition of electing governments with machetes instead of voting booths, things could be worse.

[sailorchic34]

Oh there are a few restrooms here and there. Try to find them though while hopping up and down.... Some city parks have public toilets. But more so in rural then urban locations. They are generally closed at sunset too.

SF does have a few public facilities out and about, Not that I would want to go there. There are rest stops along some interstates. Though many have been closed due to lack of maintenance funds.

Fast food places outside big city locations are pretty easy to go to without begging for a key.

That's my issue with non-mobile anchor outs in the US. Take them off the water and you have another homeless person, ducking behind a bush on land, if your lucky.

Sounds like the US might be in the running for third world status.... compared to the UK, EU or OZ. Oh its got its good parts too. Just not in Public restrooms or support for the homeless..

[hellosailor]

The case somehow never appears to be made, that on this planet the normal ecology relies on urea in animal urine to fertilize the flora. Yes, if your dog pees on the lawn all winter while it i snow covered, you'll find healthy green "fairy rings" growing in the spots that got fertilized, while the rest struggles to wake up.

Which begs the point, someone had better order an Environmental Impact Study before they tell the primates not to pee on the lawn. Failure to pee on the lawn could adversely impact the environment. Slow down the grass, deprive grazing animals of food, force bugs and ticks to find some other habitat...

Lord only knows how sea grass and corals might be impacted by a urea and acid shortfall.

[ReMetau]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

The must somehow never appears to be made, that on this planet the normal ecology relies on urea in animal urine to fertilize the flora. Yes, if your dog pees on the lawn all winter while it i snow covered, you'll find healthy green "fairy rings" growing in the spots that got fertilized, while the rest struggles to wake up.

Which begs the point, someone had better order an Environmental Impact Study before they tell the primates not to pee on the lawn. Failure to pee on the lawn could adversely impact the environment. Slow down the grass, deprive grazing animals of food, force bugs and ticks to find some other habitat...

Lord only knows how sea grass and corals might be impacted by a urea and acid shortfall.

I think it might be more of the solids than the liquids. I owned a yellow Lab for meany years, and everywhere he went the grass turned yellow and died.

[sarafina]

Been my experience that the US (all over, NOT just California) is pretty much like the rest of the places I have visited which include Canada. England, France, Italy, Mexico, Guatemala, Panama, Argentina, Brazil, Colombia blablabla...

There are toilets in public places, sometimes, and they are open, sometimes, and clean enough, sometimes.

There are restaurants and gas stations and shops that usually have facilities available with little trouble.

But inevitably, whatever country I have been in, when you need one desperately there is never one near, and in a condition that is appealing, not appaling...

It's a problem everywhere I have been. The advantage of being on your own home turf is that you *know where* the accessible and acceptable spots are hidden!

And don't even get me started on the ratio of mens' to womens' where it is divided up that way...

[hellosailor]

Sara, don't get too excited but there are some fledgling smartphone apps that actually SHOW public restrooms for the user.

Of course this being 21st century America, I expect the next step will be "bumping" your phone on the stall instead of putting in a quarter.<VBG>