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Old 13-10-2012, 07:09   #151
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Re: The controversy over "Captain Jay" continues

It's not really a matter of "allowing"! It's a matter of money!

I used to work in the sewer overflow equiment and design field but will just keep my opinion of the topic to myself.

But does this have anything really to do with Captain Jay or is it being used as an excuse?
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Old 13-10-2012, 07:16   #152
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Re: The controversy over "Captain Jay" continues

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Lucas View Post
snip
I used to work in the sewer overflow equiment
And now you sail a hunter

Sorry Don but i just could not let that one "float past"
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Old 13-10-2012, 08:32   #153
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Re: The controversy over "Captain Jay" continues

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And now you sail a hunter

Sorry Don but i just could not let that one "float past"

Must be a REAL slow morning for you!
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Old 13-10-2012, 10:11   #154
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Re: The controversy over "Captain Jay" continues

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In a way, it DOES solve some of the problem.
  1. It removes a derelict vessel that raises the ire of the landlubber law makers
  2. There is a lot more resource for the homeless shore-side
  3. It removes a hazard to the other boats in the anchorage
  4. Mental Health services are available shore-side
True it makes other boaters and lubbers happier. Though his dogs poop is now on land too. You think he's going to pick up after the dog on land....I'm betting Jay is using the homeless shore side resources already.

Living on a boat with a roof over your head is far better then living under a highway or in a doorway. I see people living on some really poor vessels, some no longer floating. If being homeless was better, I'm sure they would be homeless.

Just thinking that if I was in his shoes and my options were live on a boat or be homeless, well I would choose the boat every time. Mind you, I'm not that far removed from that now. Only difference is my boat is clean and sound. Plus it can and does move about. No dog either. The dog poop issue is why I have a grumpy cat..
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Old 13-10-2012, 15:12   #155
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Re: The controversy over "Captain Jay" continues

The issue and the solution are easily resolved if current laws/codes are enforced. It is not a failure of the sailing community to be more proactive, but rather the failure of local government/USCG to enforce existing regulations. To use an example: is it the role of the community or the police to enforce its speeding laws when someone drives down a neighborhood street at 100 mph in a 30 mph zone? Should community activists petition their city council to stop the offender or is this the role of the local police? The lack of enforcement of existing laws is the incompetence and lethargy of local/USCG officials. It is what's wrong with incompetent and inefficient government. As someone who grew up in Chicago and experienced the destruction and decay of healthy , safe neighborhoods to diseased, crime laden ghettoes, I can assure you that without proper enforcement and fair standards, good things become bad. Derelicts must go, laws must be enforced and fairness applied to preserve our precious anchoring rights. No one wants to live in a ghetto. This has nothing to do with compasssion. It has everything to do with fairness.
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Old 13-10-2012, 16:40   #156
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Re: The controversy over "Captain Jay" continues

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Originally Posted by rebel heart View Post
The guy is a friggin bum with feces all over the deck of his floating wreck of a home that used to be called a boat. I really have no idea how it is some of you are considering him a mariner, boater, or sailor. This isn't some sojourner. He's a societal leech.
Who are you to judge this man and condemn him as a "bum" and a " societal leech" ?!

I've noticed that you too, fail dramatically in a few areas. Should we now call you names and suggest that you are somehow less worthy of respect because you fail to live up to someone else's definition of boater? Truly disgusting attitude and one contrary to the cruisers philosophy as I understand it.

Am I wrong? Do I need to have a boat that passes the rebel heart inspection in order to stay on the waterways?
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Old 13-10-2012, 17:27   #157
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Allright everyone, Lets wind it back a bit and remember the Forum's "be nice rule". In this case it means focus on the topic and not each other. If this keeps up this thread is heading for closure.
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Old 13-10-2012, 17:35   #158
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Re: The controversy over "Captain Jay" continues

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Lucas View Post
It's not really a matter of "allowing"! It's a matter of money!

I used to work in the sewer overflow equiment and design field but will just keep my opinion of the topic to myself.

But does this have anything really to do with Captain Jay or is it being used as an excuse?

I think it came up because the failure to dispose of human (and animal, as it turns out) waste is at the heart of community concerns where Capt. Jay kept his boat. I think someone tried to argue that the sewage system was a much bigger problem -- but not in that particular, which makes live-aboards vulnerable for such a criticism there.

No one has to *like* it, but as someone who has talked to the locals on this issue, I know it to be the issue in Gulfport, FL.
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Old 13-10-2012, 18:21   #159
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Re: The controversy over "Captain Jay" continues

What I don't understand is why you keep talking about the Capt Jay Problem, when you and I know he's no longer a problem there ! And Racu I thought from your posts you were about to leave the area ?? So to me the whole thing is dead and stinkin! the guys gone and so should this thread be gone !!LOL Just my 2 cents !!
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Old 13-10-2012, 18:44   #160
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Re: The controversy over "Captain Jay" continues

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What I don't understand is why you keep talking about the Capt Jay Problem, when you and I know he's no longer a problem there ! And Racu I thought from your posts you were about to leave the area ?? So to me the whole thing is dead and stinkin! the guys gone and so should this thread be gone !!LOL Just my 2 cents !!

Sorry, Bob, the larger issue isn't clear from your post, that "Captain" Jay was a symbol of an ongoing concern in this town that basically all the liveaboard off the waters were living as Jay did. Some might feel that it all ties into the increased rules being put up about anchoring, the development of mooring fields, towns and cities trying to declare that no one can anchor within a certain distance of those mooring fields, etc., etc., etc.

And, the topic of Capt. Jay is in the title because I referred people to a specific, recent article about him in the OP.

It occurs to me that such issues might arise wherever I park my boat ...
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Old 13-10-2012, 19:32   #161
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Re: The controversy over "Captain Jay" continues

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Originally Posted by sailorchic34 View Post
True it makes other boaters and lubbers happier. Though his dogs poop is now on land too. You think he's going to pick up after the dog on land....I'm betting Jay is using the homeless shore side resources already.

Living on a boat with a roof over your head is far better then living under a highway or in a doorway. I see people living on some really poor vessels, some no longer floating. If being homeless was better, I'm sure they would be homeless.

Just thinking that if I was in his shoes and my options were live on a boat or be homeless, well I would choose the boat every time. Mind you, I'm not that far removed from that now. Only difference is my boat is clean and sound. Plus it can and does move about. No dog either. The dog poop issue is why I have a grumpy cat..
Good point chic.....I'll address that>>>

As I understand it, his dog is in the care, custody and control of others at this time

As much as my sympathies go out to those who are forced to live under a bridge, my sympathies end when it impacts me. If Capt Jay's actions cause a more restrictive anchoring ordinance, then I (as well as every other RESPONSIBLE cruiser) loose. I take exception when someone (regardless if the cause is a mental health issue or just pure laziness) cause me to become somewhat less able to pursue the fruits of my hard work for the last half-century.

I have a mutual friend with Capt. Jay; she equally wants to protect and revere the man, as he is really a likable guy.... but the fact remains, the man is a BUM, a likable bum, but still a bum; irresponsible and uncaring for his fellow "cruisers" (parentheses because he was NOT a cruiser).
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Old 13-10-2012, 19:56   #162
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Re: The controversy over "Captain Jay" continues

Well I'm not for restricted anchoring or mooring fields. I think cities pretty much all around the US are looking to control and charging fees pretty much for everything it seems to me now a days.

To the lubber's eye we are all capt'n jays, freeloading by anchoring and spoiling the views. You could get rid of all the capt'n jays out there and the cities will still want you to pay to anchor / moor and give you a 3 day limit to boot.

Delightful times we live in. Lucky me, I try to avoid towns and cities and busy anchorages as much as possible. Too noisy and crowded for me..
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Old 13-10-2012, 20:08   #163
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Re: The controversy over "Captain Jay" continues

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Originally Posted by capngeo View Post
Good point chic.....I'll address that>>>

As I understand it, his dog is in the care, custody and control of others at this time

As much as my sympathies go out to those who are forced to live under a bridge, my sympathies end when it impacts me. If Capt Jay's actions cause a more restrictive anchoring ordinance, then I (as well as every other RESPONSIBLE cruiser) loose. I take exception when someone (regardless if the cause is a mental health issue or just pure laziness) cause me to become somewhat less able to pursue the fruits of my hard work for the last half-century.

I have a mutual friend with Capt. Jay; she equally wants to protect and revere the man, as he is really a likable guy.... but the fact remains, the man is a BUM, a likable bum, but still a bum; irresponsible and uncaring for his fellow "cruisers" (parentheses because he was NOT a cruiser).
Yes. These are details only locals would know. He is likeable (although I suspect not always; I don't think that blow to his jaw came out of the blue), but the incident with him gave credibility to those in town who have been opposed not only to those anchoring out but in some cases, the public marina.

Local suspicion is that this was all started by someone on the "city" council who was a realtor and who wanted to use that waterfront property for residential development. That person is no longer in Gulfport, but the issue had traction and got more traction from this whole incident. However, we have new people on the city council who are also opposed to "live aboards" anchored out.

According to Florida law, Jay was a true "live aboard," and therefore could be forced to move, because his boat *could not be cruised.* If you use your boat for recreation as well as living accommodations, according to Florida law you're a cruiser, not a "live aboard." We throw the term around a lot incorrectly in Florida. I call myself a "live aboard," but actually by state definition I'm a cruiser using my boat for my living accommodations. It's a fine point most of the time but is what allowed the judge to act against Jay.
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Old 13-10-2012, 20:10   #164
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Re: The controversy over "Captain Jay" continues

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Well I'm not for restricted anchoring or mooring fields. I think cities pretty much all around the US are looking to control and charging fees pretty much for everything it seems to me now a days.

To the lubber's eye we are all capt'n jays, freeloading by anchoring and spoiling the views. You could get rid of all the capt'n jays out there and the cities will still want you to pay to anchor / moor and give you a 3 day limit to boot.

Delightful times we live in. Lucky me, I try to avoid towns and cities and busy anchorages as much as possible. Too noisy and crowded for me..

It all depends on what *else* you want out of life. I sing in a chorus, and tutor, and enjoy going to plays, concerts, street festivals, etc. I'm not interested in cutting most of my ties with communities. I'm still a part of my community, and that's what I want. I enjoy my sailing club. I'm moving across the bay, but I'll still only be 25 min. away from the sailing club I belong to.

Different strokes for different folks, but it makes these issues more of a concern for me.
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Old 13-10-2012, 20:56   #165
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Re: The controversy over "Captain Jay" continues

I can't speak specifically for Gulfport, but just about everywhere else I have researched and learned about anti-anchoring ordinances it turns out that behind the push there is someone or a few someones looking to make money off of the situation. The average citizen doesn't know or care anything about boats at anchor, and I bet if they were asked to vote would prefer to keep the waters free for everyone to share and use. Chances are there are a lot of boaters in a place like Gulfport who at least occasionally anchor out and enjoy it, and probably wouldn't be too happy if they were told they couldn't anymore. In St. Augustine the city wanted to expand the marina and build a breakwater, and they got the bright idea to make all those freeloading anchorers pay. In Sarasota Marina Jacks has been trying to outlaw anchoring for decades, in order to force people to come into the marina or pay for a mooring. They have an incredible sweetheart deal with the city that basically gives them all the revenue from the mooring field, while the city pays for its construction. They even managed to get most of the local sailing club's moorings declared illegal, so more business for the city mooring field. In Marathon, same thing. The city was going broke maintaining their mooring field, which is only partly full most of the year. They needed hundreds of thousands of $$ in county funds just to keep going the past few years. So, someone came up with the bright idea to charge $22 to land your dinghy, while also further restricting the area you can anchor. In New England several towns have had legal action taken against them when investigations learned that often the harbormaster was in cahoots with local businessmen who controlled all the mooring space in the harbor, and of course "friends" mysteriously got moorings while others were on long waiting lists for years. Look deeper into the motivations behind these laws and it is often about money.
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