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Old 20-08-2014, 17:13   #91
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Re: Take the Anti-Piracy Pledge

Okay, I think I'm getting the flair now thanks to a very slow waiter who has ignored my credit card for 20 minutes now.

Here's my idea -
Create a symbol that will be immediately recognizable to any pirate that indicates the following:

That the owners have the boat have directed, either through bond or self-insurance, that up to $3M will be used to hire a mercenary team to kill every person involved in their attack or kidnapping.

Probably a few nits to be fixed in there, but thats a basic plan.
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Old 20-08-2014, 17:18   #92
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Re: Take the Anti-Piracy Pledge

I hate to say it, but when I was growing up, where I grew up, there was such a symbol. Well, not really a symbol. If you were Italian....it was understood

And, in this day and age, maybe that would not be a bad thing.

BTW, my pledge relates to an oath I took many, many years ago. It was never indicated to me that, that oath had an expiration date.

Thanks

J
ps - one thing I do not understand, is why some enterprising company has not put together an escort service for pleasure yachts, transiting off Somalia and Yemen, up to the Suez. There is probably not enough money to cover expenses, I suspect.
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Old 20-08-2014, 17:57   #93
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Re: Take the Anti-Piracy Pledge

Art, your plan is not without merit. If the wiki can be authoritative, it confirms something I recall from the 80's. A quote below:

"...in October 1985, Alpha Group [my add: Spetsnaz] was dispatched to war-torn Beirut, Lebanon. The Kremlin was informed of the kidnapping of four Soviet diplomats by the militant group, the Islamic Liberation Organization (a radical offshoot of the Muslim Brotherhood). It was believed that this was retaliation for the Soviet support of Syrian involvement in the Lebanese Civil War.[16] However, by the time Alpha arrived, one of the hostages had already been killed. Through a network of supporting KGB operatives, members of the task-force identified each of the perpetrators involved in the crisis, and once identified, began to take the relatives of these militants as hostages. Following the standard Soviet policy of no negotiations with terrorists, some of the hostages taken by Alpha Group were dismembered, and their body parts sent to the militants. The warning was clear: more would follow unless the remaining hostages were released immediately. The show of force worked, and for a period of 20 years no Soviet or Russian officials were taken captive."

Was it George Orwell who said, "People sleep peacefully in their beds at night only because rough men with guns stand ready to do violence on their behalf?"

Thanks

J
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Old 20-08-2014, 18:45   #94
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Re: Take the Anti-Piracy Pledge

John, If the pledge said, "Take me hostage and the Spetnaz will dismember your family members"... I'd "buy" that as the ad goes.

sign me up for that one

PS: My captain friend on board a chemical tanker hired a Russian destroyer and a contingent of Spetnaz to go through the Gulf of Aden, What happened to would be pirates , that attempted to board them is an amusing ( if very deadly ) story. ( that didn't make the press either )

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Old 20-08-2014, 20:26   #95
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I'm at Kota Kinabalu Borneo right now . The piracy /terror situation is at the fore front ot my mind . To go north to the Philipines l have to pass through the area where the German yacht was taken . To go East around Sabah is definitely troubled waters . In regards to gun's and Rambo approach.... the Malaysian government has a very strong, well armed military presence between Sandakan and Tawau Sabah at the moment. The East Malaysia yacht rally just got a naval escort throngh the area. There is patrolling well armed military on the island's and travel corridors with curfews ,yet this did not stop one policeman being shot dead and his partner kidnapped via high speed rib by the Filipino terrorist group Abu Sayyaf from Mabul island .This happend approximately one month ago . If they don't fear a modern well equipped military force I'm quietly confident you and your one high powered rifle is not much of a deterrent. These guy's are fighting for a cause, l don't believe death or injury is a deterient. No individual or group is solving these problem's anytime soon.

But things alway's need to be put into perspective. In this area these are not new developments . They have been happening for decade's. The Phillipines consist of over 7000 islands! The vast majority being very safe. Palawan , where the German couple were kidnapped is transited by many yachts every year and this is the first yacht incident ive heard of. l will transit this area myself in approx two months . l won't loiter in south Palawan , just quickly move through . l personally have assessed the risk and believe I'm in more danger driving my car or motorbike back in Australia.

And just a final passing tip ...... the photo of you and your bodyguard didn't add any cred to your point at view.

Cheers Dale Tournier.
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Old 20-08-2014, 20:50   #96
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Re: Take the Anti-Piracy Pledge

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Originally Posted by John Drake View Post
As reported by the Seattle Times, during that talk the Dalai Lama responded to a question posed by a student about how to react to a potential school shooter by stating that it would "be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun."
I'm not a Buddhist, but I am a 'fan' if you will of the current Dalai Lama, as a pretty wise and intelligent guy. I have no problem believing that he said what you have quoted.

Note that he said "shoot back". He did not say:
  • that everyone should be armed, and that it's ok to shoot first
  • that revenge is ok
  • that it's reasonable to spend endless hours contemplating remote scenarios and "Jack Bauer" solutions
I haven't seen much in the thread that suggests that anyone much cares about really ending piracy. Just a couple unworkable ideas about some sort of poison-pill, and the usual revenge fantasies.

Quote:
ps - one thing I do not understand, is why some enterprising company has not put together an escort service for pleasure yachts, transiting off Somalia and Yemen, up to the Suez. There is probably not enough money to cover expenses, I suspect.
I understand that there are yacht-forwarding companies in that area that will load pleasure boats onto specially-designed freighters and take the boats efficiently through that area, while the owners fly, take a cruiseship or something. Much more efficient than trying to ride shotgun on a white fiberglass flotilla.
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Old 20-08-2014, 20:57   #97
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Re: Take the Anti-Piracy Pledge

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Just a couple unworkable ideas about some sort of poison-pill, and the usual revenge fantasies.
It's not a fantasy. If the pirates believed that there would be real repercussions - meaning swift, relentless attacks on them ending in certain death - for capturing or killing an American citizen, they would not do it.

My guess is that pirates have a pecking order in terms of "favorite" targets, and my other guess is that the most liberal, socialist countries in the world are at the top of that list.

I'll bet that Iran, Korea, and Syria are on their "do not touch" list.
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Old 20-08-2014, 21:07   #98
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Re: Take the Anti-Piracy Pledge

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It's not a fantasy. If the pirates believed that there would be real repercussions - meaning swift, relentless attacks on them ending in certain death - for capturing or killing an American citizen, they would not do it.
Riiight. Cos it's perfectly sensible to dispatch a SEAL team every time some rich senior blunders into where everyone's been warning them not to go.
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Old 20-08-2014, 21:30   #99
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Re: Take the Anti-Piracy Pledge

Hi lake

And again, you are contributing no ideas or helpful information.
It is pretty clear, the only way to end piracy, is to end the pirates.

As for tv fantasies, they are just that. But, you have a choice, depend on luck and the good graces of those who would saw your head off, as soon look at you, or fight back. If indeed, you want to transit those areas.

My advice is simple. Your adversary will most like have an AK and be unable to shoot it well. The 7.62x39 round drops 123 inches at 500 yards and has only 300 ft lbs of energy left. A .308 (NATO 7.62x54) round drops only about 53 inches and still has over 1000 ft lbs of energy left.

That is no fantasy

Best of luck to whomever is planning the transit. Sounds as though you will need it.
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Old 20-08-2014, 22:40   #100
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Re: Take the Anti-Piracy Pledge

Actually IMO they are both fantasies. Have you ever tried to hit a man size target at 500 yards from the deck of a small sailboat with a 7.62? It's damn hard. Now add to that the fact they are on a small moving boat as well. Automatic fire is more effective than single, aimed rounds in this situation. Now, a mini-gun would be good....but impractical.

However, the reality is almost 100% of vessels won't be armed when/if they need it. It's not the USA, it is difficult to carry weapons on a cruising yacht. The regulations of most countries make it that way.

I have 10 years experience in the military. Recon. I have been a martial arts instructor. So I have a bit of background..

If you are cruising with the normal crew, your best tactic by far is stealth, and a good watch. You MUST see the other vessel first, and try to break contact. You will lose a confrontation.

I had this discussion with a vastly more experienced soldier than me - the retired C.O of the UK 3 Commando. He too was out cruising. We are of the same opinion. Once an attack has begun, you will lose.

However, most of the people commenting on this thread will never see this situation, or perhaps even leave (mostly US ) home waters. You are much more at risk in the larger cities int he USA than you are on your yacht somewhere...

There are FAR more likely issues for a cruising boat - Fire, Lightning, Weather, Illness. If you get too caught up in this you will never leave your couch. By all means, think about it. Have a plan for what you can. Life is a risk - But you want to live it, not just be alive. Go. Go now. Those that do almost never regret it!
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Old 20-08-2014, 23:21   #101
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Re: Take the Anti-Piracy Pledge

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Originally Posted by daletournier View Post
I'm at Kota Kinabalu Borneo right now . The piracy /terror situation is at the fore front ot my mind . To go north to the Philipines l have to pass through the area where the German yacht was taken .

Cheers Dale Tournier.
Dale...go via West coast (Palawan Passage) straight to SBYC as it is the fastest most secure route.... Have done it many times.
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Old 20-08-2014, 23:41   #102
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Re: Take the Anti-Piracy Pledge

The approach I describe has been used for decades. War coorespondents wore bright colors and were unarmed.

Listen to the words of a father who lost his son.

"It may be that Daniel Pearl was a precedent, in that the aura of protection was broken," Daniel's father, Judea Pearl, said in a*2012 interview with The Post* "It was understood even to extreme elements that you donít touch a journalist, that you will pay, but that myth has been broken. "

Dear Mr. Pearl,
It wasn't a myth.
Previous warring parties held a similar value system. Then, both sides considered beheading an unarmed journalist to be more than a slight blemish to character.

Now, in some cases, the value systems of parties are different.

The old poison pill is not effective and a new one is required.

Arming a yacht to the teeth isn't a poison pill.

One of you correctly pointed to knowledge The Family would act, helped insure protection of Italians. In part, this allowed Italian immigrants to open businesses. Not all were the wrong kind.

In my case, I don't feel powerless.


A case in point. Dale wrote on this thread from Malaysia. He wonders about coming to the Philippines.

I have the power to encourage him. The people and business owners of the Philippines appreciate that I took the time to write a guide on how to safely sail here. Dale says he is coming and will follow my advise.

Dale, come soon. The wind shift will likely be early. Dale, good honey and cashew butter at Nara.Take bus to Tabon Caves.

Right now, I am selling the Philippines. I hope to do so a long time. I want to change my recommendations about where not to sail.




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Old 20-08-2014, 23:41   #103
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Re: Take the Anti-Piracy Pledge

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I haven't seen much in the thread that suggests that anyone much cares about really ending piracy. Just a couple unworkable ideas about some sort of poison-pill, and the usual revenge fantasies.
I think workable solutions are very much location and culture specific

What works in a US town won't work in the Philippines or Israel.... and vice versa.

My Filipino partner and I have been watching the coverage of the US riots and looting of shops in Ferguson over the police shooting of a black kid.

I asked her if she thought the same would happen in the Philippines?

She said no, if they started damaging property or looting stores... the owners would simply shoot them and it would be quietly accepted!

Sometimes the rule of law... gets in the way of justice and vice versa !
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Old 20-08-2014, 23:54   #104
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Pbmaise......I'm not wondering if l should come to the Philippines , I am. What advise? , we haven't spoken and l haven't read your cruising guide ! let alone taken your advise! Are you serious ? I very rarely comment on this forum, this would be why.
But it is entertaining!
Dale.
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Old 21-08-2014, 00:21   #105
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Re: Take the Anti-Piracy Pledge

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The approach I describe has been used for decades. War coorespondents wore bright colors and were unarmed.

Listen to the words of a father who lost his son.

"It may be that Daniel Pearl was a precedent, in that the aura of protection was broken," Daniel's father, Judea Pearl, said in a*2012 interview with The Post* "It was understood even to extreme elements that you donít touch a journalist, that you will pay, but that myth has been broken. "
Daniel Pearl was a precedent??? Just to name one incident, the Balibo Five predates him by some 27 years.
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