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Old 18-08-2014, 18:58   #31
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Re: Take the Anti-Piracy Pledge

Pleased to report that other than rapacious ice prices all is well in the general area of the northeast US. Pirate activity seems mostly limited to real estate, particularly in the Hamptons (willing victims where no sane person would go anyway).
No beheadings of recreational or professional sailors in the last few centuries. No boardings, no robberies of note by genuine miscreants as opposed to marine professionals.
In other regions organized pirate groups seem to be banding with local guv'mint officials to privatize inland waterways and formerly open anchorages. Generally these groups operate under official cover of said local guv'mint - more like a "letter of marque" operation. To date these operations are limited to the Southeast where politicians are more affordable.
Bowling remains more dangerous than sailing (apologies to bowling sailors) in terms of injury, as does stepping into your earthbound head ("bathroom"). Beyond a certain number years of life even waking up has dangers that you may die before your next dawn.
Ebola, crazed gybing booms, flesh eating dermatitis, sharknado, small propane bottles gone berzerk - these are the REAL dangers we face!
But if you want to cut the GREATEST DANGER TO RECREATIONAL SAILORS WORLDWIDE(!!!!!) - wear sunscreen. *
All that said I do not make my guests pledge or oath to anything. They are adults, if they want to celebrate hubris in the face of the sun who am I to interfere?

*and put on you PFD ( its cool, like a bicycle helmet for not drowning).
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Old 18-08-2014, 19:44   #32
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Re: Take the Anti-Piracy Pledge

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Originally Posted by natraps116 View Post
Well,

I'm all for living, that's why I never intend to be in those high risks areas, but if I find my boat and my crew under attack, then the pirates better be willing to have a gun fight. I've seen enough beheading videos to ever beg for my life on camara. My crew knows, if they keep coming after we're out of bullets or injured. Then they wernt really interested in ransom anyway. Criminals look for easy targets. FACT. resistance makes it not worth it. They would rather take the next boat of unarmed cruisers.

Just my opinion. And the way the world is looking these days I suspect there will only be more desperate people in areas we usually consider "safe"

Just my two cents

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Much as I support your view, I know that most likely if you were to find yourself confronted with high seas pirates. You would be ( a) unlikely to be armed with high power automatic weapons in sufficient quantities (b) likely not to be armed at all given the difficulties of leisure boats carrying firearms internationly (c) unlikely to be effective with what limited arms you may have unless you AND your crew have been extensively combat trained and (d) likely to succumbs to similar fear and panic that strikes most normal people on those situAtions

It's too easy to take a domestic US view of both your ability to be armed and equally the view of criminals. Boatloads of AK wielding pirates or Islamic militants are not ordinary " downtown " criminals. Not is this activity taking place in the conifer of the USA. Often these people have experienced years even decades of armed conflict, uprisings, tyrannical rule , and " arbitrarily justice " or they may be motivated by their " cause" from which a few flying bullets from your legally held firearm will not deter them.

Dealing with these people is the arena of well equipped professionals not some " urban superhero " and those professionals struggle to control these people.

Your best bet , if confronted, after wondering why the hell you put yourself in such harms way in the first place is to seek to survive and such survival may mean performing all sort of activities. Keep yourself alive long enough and us rich western taxpayers will cause enough resources to be mobilised to free you , one way or another

DAve
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Old 18-08-2014, 19:57   #33
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Re: Take the Anti-Piracy Pledge

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Originally Posted by pbmaise View Post

The local sailing community here, and people likely to be reading these posts, know what is not being explained in full.

Again, if you wish to post pithy, creative replies, go to the joke forum. This is no joke.
Be afraid _ BE VERY AFRAID!!!!
This is the classic force multiplier of terrorism (writ large or small) enabled by the reach of the internet. Most likely the pirates of the Phillipines are still wishfully thinking of a grand payday. Perhaps they would never think about beheading except they saw something one day on utube or facebook. Days later on a slow news day the western media will need a "great story". Then the kidnappings will become really profitable (although the kidnappers will make a pittance compared to the media using it ("content is king - who pirated it kinger") ?
Piracy is a real danger to the few subject to piracy, a real but almost ridiculously statistically low probability.
Lightning is terrible. Waterspouts on top of your boat too. Seadragons, botulism in grandma's favorite canned sausage or haggis in any form may kill you. Climbers, skydivers, bowlers, walkers, bicycle enthusiasts all face and mitigate dangers supposed, known or improbable.
Kidnappers are real (Lindbergh baby) and may be the fear of many or most - a universal boogeyman.
Pardon me if I refuse to be scared by the hype.
You are on a boat. Do not willingly go to war zones or bad neighborhoods. If the neighborhood turns bad or war breaks out up anchor and go somewhere else.
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Old 18-08-2014, 20:56   #34
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Re: Take the Anti-Piracy Pledge

Quote:
Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
Much as I support your view, I know that most likely if you were to find yourself confronted with high seas pirates. You would be ( a) unlikely to be armed with high power automatic weapons in sufficient quantities (b) likely not to be armed at all given the difficulties of leisure boats carrying firearms internationly (c) unlikely to be effective with what limited arms you may have unless you AND your crew have been extensively combat trained and (d) likely to succumbs to similar fear and panic that strikes most normal people on those situAtions

It's too easy to take a domestic US view of both your ability to be armed and equally the view of criminals. Boatloads of AK wielding pirates or Islamic militants are not ordinary " downtown " criminals. Not is this activity taking place in the conifer of the USA. Often these people have experienced years even decades of armed conflict, uprisings, tyrannical rule , and " arbitrarily justice " or they may be motivated by their " cause" from which a few flying bullets from your legally held firearm will not deter them.

Dealing with these people is the arena of well equipped professionals not some " urban superhero " and those professionals struggle to control these people.

Your best bet , if confronted, after wondering why the hell you put yourself in such harms way in the first place is to seek to survive and such survival may mean performing all sort of activities. Keep yourself alive long enough and us rich western taxpayers will cause enough resources to be mobilised to free you , one way or another

DAve
All you points are very valid. I agree

There is only two types of people on a sinking ship, the people that would claw and bribe and lie and do anything to survive, then there is the few that are willing stoke the furnace to keep power on to their own deaths knowing that it will comfort those boarding the life boats, or the guys playing the violins... or any other selfless acts performed in many other situations.... the point is, someone has to be the person that gets their hands dirty and takes action. I am proud that my country (yes America) has gun toting HEROES willing to pull the trigger and risk their lives for free people like us.. but I also believe in PERSONAL responsibility in all aspects of the safety of the crew on land or sea.

I for one, (and I know I'm in the minority here ) would rather DIE, yes die fighting a loosing battle then rely on their supposed mercy or their desire for money. My wife agrees that she would rather catch a bullet then be sold as some thugs 5th wife.
Some things in life you have to stand on principle. And self defense is always a matter of principle. In ANY situation where you could defend yourself, a seemingly more rational line of thought is "give them what they want and they'll go away". Well as anyone who has been robbed knows, that only emboldens the robbers (or conquerers) the world over.

I'm not suggesting people who have no training or everyone should feel this way, in fact I agree with you whole heartedly that the VAST majority of people should heed your advice. I'm just saying I personaly would rather go down fighting then live and know my crew was tortured or worse and survive the ordeal only to live with that.

And to end I would say I think we can both agree that the first line of defense is WE SHOULD ALL STAY THE HELL OUT OF THOSE AREAS!!
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Old 18-08-2014, 21:21   #35
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Re: Take the Anti-Piracy Pledge

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Originally Posted by natraps116 View Post
All you points are very valid. I agree

There is only two types of people on a sinking ship, the people that would claw and bribe and lie and do anything to survive, then there is the few that are willing stoke the furnace to keep power on to their own deaths knowing that it will comfort those boarding the life boats, or the guys playing the violins... or any other selfless acts performed in many other situations.... the point is, someone has to be the person that gets their hands dirty and takes action. I am proud that my country (yes America) has gun toting HEROES willing to pull the trigger and risk their lives for free people like us.. but I also believe in PERSONAL responsibility in all aspects of the safety of the crew on land or sea.

I for one, (and I know I'm in the minority here ) would rather DIE, yes die fighting a loosing battle then rely on their supposed mercy or their desire for money. My wife agrees that she would rather catch a bullet then be sold as some thugs 5th wife.
Some things in life you have to stand on principle. And self defense is always a matter of principle. In ANY situation where you could defend yourself, a seemingly more rational line of thought is "give them what they want and they'll go away". Well as anyone who has been robbed knows, that only emboldens the robbers (or conquerers) the world over.

I'm not suggesting people who have no training or everyone should feel this way, in fact I agree with you whole heartedly that the VAST majority of people should heed your advice. I'm just saying I personaly would rather go down fighting then live and know my crew was tortured or worse and survive the ordeal only to live with that.

And to end I would say I think we can both agree that the first line of defense is WE SHOULD ALL STAY THE HELL OUT OF THOSE AREAS!!
The Philadelphia waterfront was dangerous (for some) in the Colonial Days and being the waterfront maybe/probably for many years after, yet pressed seaman taken to Singapore are a thing of the past. Robbers know (for the most part) better than to hit up a poor schmuck on a boat, it only makes all more poor.
All is well, no pirates sighted - let your women see daylight, put down your arms.
Tricorn hats and eyepatches are out of favor, Jimmy Buffett is okay for a track or two, blunderbusses against the citizenry will get the constabulary on your ass.
Lay down your weapons, lighten up.
NO pirates here.
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Old 18-08-2014, 21:24   #36
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Re: Take the Anti-Piracy Pledge

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Originally Posted by brazenarticle View Post
The Philadelphia waterfront was dangerous (for some) in the Colonial Days and being the waterfront maybe/probably for many years after, yet pressed seaman taken to Singapore are a thing of the past. Robbers know (for the most part) better than to hit up a poor schmuck on a boat, it only makes all more poor.
All is well, no pirates sighted - let your women see daylight, put down your arms.
Tricorn hats and eyepatches are out of favor, Jimmy Buffett is okay for a track or two, blunderbusses against the citizenry will get the constabulary on your ass.
Lay down your weapons, lighten up.
NO pirates here.
Thumbs up to that!

(Although between Philly and camden, I wouldn't venture out without a ccw)
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Old 18-08-2014, 21:33   #37
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Re: Take the Anti-Piracy Pledge

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I am proud that my country (yes America) has gun toting HEROES willing to pull the trigger and risk their lives for free people like us.. !
Aha!
I knew it, smoked you from the first but could not put my finger on that scent! WE (in Philadelphia) are a land of HOAGIES ( named after the faithful ship builders that bought their lunches to HOG Island). We have no HEROES here, get thee back to Queens, Staten Island or the nether regions of the inner boroughs.
No gunfire please, we are all kind of Quaker when it comes to getting shot at. Perhaps one day we can have some steaks at Tony Luke's ?( best chicken cheesesteak around, although that may start another revolutionary war).
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Old 18-08-2014, 22:16   #38
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Re: Take the Anti-Piracy Pledge

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Originally Posted by pbmaise View Post
Last night I spoke with a police officer who confirmed three things:

1. To date it appears no demand for money has been made. None is expected.

2. He agreed the powers of any authorities is secondary to those of business owners. They are the ones that storm his office and demand specific interventions.
I am posting this with as much tact as possible. I lived in the Philippines for 6 years, was married to a Filipina for 23 years and have lived in SEA for 30 years. I was in Manila during Marcos' fall - tanks, guns, airport strafing the whole banana.

I think you are playing a dangerous game and you are being somewhat naive.

Warlords and power mongers have been in the Philippines long before you got there and will be there long after you are gone.

Talking to local police and making noise about this is exactly what you don't want to be doing. You already stated that as the largest boat inthe area you have a high profile.

Now you are rallying "global" support to fight automatic weapon-armed terrorists economically? By boycotting local businesses?

Seriously. This can get you killed. Not just piracy. I watched one dude shoot another dude in a bar in Manila over a parking space. There are lots of guns in the Philippines.

One time we were driving in the southern part of Luzon - I was the only westerner. We came to a log roadblock with about 6 guys armed with M-16s. They asked if I wanted to contribute to the Barrio Fiesta. I sad, "Sure. How much do I want to contribute?" We settled at 20,000 pesos. We passed the roadblock, entered the town and had lunch.

The point is - Don't get involved in local politics, local beefs and local crime. Don't talk religion and don't be a pompous westerner.

An above all else - Don't cruise areas that are known to be dangerous for Pete's sake. There are awesome palm trees, beaches and coconuts all over Asia. You don't need to go to freakin' Mindanao.
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Old 18-08-2014, 22:32   #39
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Re: Take the Anti-Piracy Pledge

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I am posting this with as much tact as possible. I lived in the Philippines for 6 years, was married to a Filipina for 23 years and have lived in SEA for 30 years. I was in Manila during Marcos' fall - tanks, guns, airport strafing the whole banana.

I think you are playing a dangerous game and you are being somewhat naive.

Warlords and power mongers have been in the Philippines long before you got there and will be there long after you are gone.

Talking to local police and making noise about this is exactly what you don't want to be doing. You already stated that as the largest boat inthe area you have a high profile.

Now you are rallying "global" support to fight automatic weapon-armed terrorists economically? By boycotting local businesses?

Seriously. This can get you killed. Not just piracy. I watched one dude shoot another dude in a bar in Manila over a parking space. There are lots of guns in the Philippines.

One time we were driving in the southern part of Luzon - I was the only westerner. We came to a log roadblock with about 6 guys armed with M-16s. They asked if I wanted to contribute to the Barrio Fiesta. I sad, "Sure. How much do I want to contribute?" We settled at 20,000 pesos. We passed the roadblock, entered the town and had lunch.

The point is - Don't get involved in local politics, local beefs and local crime. Don't talk religion and don't be a pompous westerner.

An above all else - Don't cruise areas that are known to be dangerous for Pete's sake. There are awesome palm trees, beaches and coconuts all over Asia. You don't need to go to freakin' Mindanao.
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Old 18-08-2014, 23:22   #40
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Re: Take the Anti-Piracy Pledge

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Old 19-08-2014, 03:09   #41
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Take the Anti-Piracy Pledge

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Originally Posted by natraps116 View Post
All you points are very valid. I agree

There is only two types of people on a sinking ship, the people that would claw and bribe and lie and do anything to survive, then there is the few that are willing stoke the furnace to keep power on to their own deaths knowing that it will comfort those boarding the life boats, or the guys playing the violins... or any other selfless acts performed in many other situations.... the point is, someone has to be the person that gets their hands dirty and takes action. I am proud that my country (yes America) has gun toting HEROES willing to pull the trigger and risk their lives for free people like us.. but I also believe in PERSONAL responsibility in all aspects of the safety of the crew on land or sea.

I for one, (and I know I'm in the minority here ) would rather DIE, yes die fighting a loosing battle then rely on their supposed mercy or their desire for money. My wife agrees that she would rather catch a bullet then be sold as some thugs 5th wife.
Some things in life you have to stand on principle. And self defense is always a matter of principle. In ANY situation where you could defend yourself, a seemingly more rational line of thought is "give them what they want and they'll go away". Well as anyone who has been robbed knows, that only emboldens the robbers (or conquerers) the world over.

I'm not suggesting people who have no training or everyone should feel this way, in fact I agree with you whole heartedly that the VAST majority of people should heed your advice. I'm just saying I personaly would rather go down fighting then live and know my crew was tortured or worse and survive the ordeal only to live with that.

And to end I would say I think we can both agree that the first line of defense is WE SHOULD ALL STAY THE HELL OUT OF THOSE AREAS!!

Oh well, I can't say I'm surprised.

Actually many countries have " gun toting heros". Most get dead, sadly. Unfortunately all that typical happens is they go down in a hail of bullets, your crew get tortured anyway and your wife is a bride to some freedom fighter.

I know a few genuine " gun toting" types, currently earning a few bob in Ukraine, 100 % crazy. Not people you want to crew with. They'd probably sell your wife themselves !!

( not specifically using your partner to mean anything,just carrying on your line of thinking )

What I don't understand is how you get the Aks and RPG launchers through airport security for those boat charters you take, will Thomson Tours let me bring my Semi to that nice beachfront chalet ???

Dave
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Old 19-08-2014, 03:46   #42
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Re: Take the Anti-Piracy Pledge

Thank you for your input

I concur that the pledge should be expanded to any untoward incident even if it wasn't aboard.

Thank you for your suggestions about staying out of the area. I do stay well away from these "strong holds". In this case the incident occurred in an area considered safe. What the Germans were doing can be considered an unsafe practice of lingering too long in remote places where attention was called to them. It was an area I was sailing through too, but did not stop.

The more important document I wrote is the travel advisory to other sailors about how to safely visit the Philippines. It was copied to Noonsite.

It is difficult to freely travel the world when others have paid ransoms. It makes me think twice of my family back home.

It is good to know they will never pay one.

If you would like to borrow a crew member of mine while in the Philippines that are great at hauling stuff to and from shore. Although in the photo, I am the one seated, and I hauled that weight back to the boat. Rhonnie stayed aboard keeping an eye out.
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Old 19-08-2014, 03:56   #43
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Take the Anti-Piracy Pledge

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It is good to know they will never pay one.
.

I think that's an incredibly naive thing to claim, what if they start getting your fingers and ears in the mail.

The fact is the evidence suggest that irrespective, those that have or can access the cash , will use it to try and gain your release and return you to their bosom. No fancy pledges will change human nature.

But, hey knock yourself out believing otherwise.

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Old 19-08-2014, 06:29   #44
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Re: Take the Anti-Piracy Pledge

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Oh well, I can't say I'm surprised.

Actually many countries have " gun toting heros". Most get dead, sadly. Unfortunately all that typical happens is they go down in a hail of bullets, your crew get tortured anyway and your wife is a bride to some freedom fighter.

I know a few genuine " gun toting" types, currently earning a few bob in Ukraine, 100 % crazy. Not people you want to crew with. They'd probably sell your wife themselves !!

( not specifically using your partner to mean anything,just carrying on your line of thinking )

What I don't understand is how you get the Aks and RPG launchers through airport security for those boat charters you take, will Thomson Tours let me bring my Semi to that nice beachfront chalet ???

Dave
I have a theoretical question for you.

You are sleeping on your boat at night and you hear someone on deck stealing your equipment, you,

A: get up and investigate who's on your boat

B: lock your cabin door and grab the radio and call for help

C:stay quit and let them take what they want and hope they don't come in your cabin

D: grab your legally owned firearm, announce your presence of your being armed and warn them to leave immediately

What would you do? I'm just curious.

(There is no right or wrong answer)
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Old 19-08-2014, 07:27   #45
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Re: Take the Anti-Piracy Pledge

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I think that's an incredibly naive thing to claim, what if they start getting your fingers and ears in the mail.
Or, pbmaise, you start getting the fingers and ears of your crew member. Or would your ethics just allow him to be cut up?

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