St Augustine Mooring Fails, City says they'll Pay.

[Boatguy30]

They are "making money" since the original cost came from city general funds and repairs have been close to NADA. Oh wait, they need to buy a new 3/4" bolt this year.

Again, I'm no big fan of mooring fields but using this one is my best local option. Please call the city tomorrow and ask the tackle be tested so we have some baseline of what the gear can handle.

Keep in mind these mooring have less than 2:1 scope. In a storm surge it will be maybe 1.5:1 or less. So a 60 deg angle from the bottom will load the tackle about 2 times the horizontal load on the boat. While storm loads are a bit hard to figure it's easy to calculate the average boat on these mooring will generate around 3-5k of load horizontally in 60 knot winds.

Multiply that by 2 for angle/ lack of scope over several hours. Can this 5 year old rope take that? I'm going to tell Hall Spars to stop the pull at 10,000 pounds but my guess is it will fail well before that.

Will be good to find out....

[Boatguy30]

Here is a link to the type of "combo" rope used from the swivel down to the bottom piece on my mooring. Mine is 3/4" maybe 7/8" stuff is weaker than I had feared. WHEN NEW!

Three Strand Combo Rope | US Rope & Cable

[Capt Doug]

Maybe their hard drive crashed..

[zboss]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

Ah, so you use the concrete mooring as a Trojan horse, to ensnare the callous trespassers and wreck them.

Hey, that works for me.

Although, if you put a rate card on the mooring ball along with a paypal address, and just charged them by the foot and the night, that could work too.(G)

It has big claws too... just to make sure we ensnare and drag them to the depths once within our reach

Originally Posted by DotDun

The agreement with the state is they either operate the mooring field or they take it out. If it falls to a state of disrepair they lose the lease and have to remove it.

I believe most have to operate that way, including private moorings... we do.

As far as running cash flow positive, I'm speculating here but I'm not really sure that was ever the intention. Maybe break even? I would think that it was to increase the number of vessels that could be moored in an area to increase tax revenue via increased foot traffic in the surrounding area. Which would make sense to me.

With that said, my neighbor operates about 20 moorings and charges $25 a night and they are pretty full all year long, so he is theoretically bringing in about 180K a year minus about 1K in maintenance expenses per ball per year and $1200 a year in seabed lease expense per year per ball (so about 140K a year max). Not bad considering he doesn't have to do any work himself.

[Boatguy30]

As an update:

Marina manager Sam tells me the city plans to pull 3 anchor cap bolts randomly from each field and somehow have the bolts tested.

I attempted to inspect my cap bolt on Sunday and you can't really see it when 6" away and shining an LED spotlight on it. What I could make out just looked to be a felt like a knurled mess.

It also does appear the city front and salt runs mooring were supplied with different tackle, but I have not inspected the underwater tackle on a city front mooring. I would encourage all city marina customers to inspect their own entire tackle prior to leaving their boat unattended.

Also, the maximum sustained winds logged at the airport 2 miles up along the intercoastal from the mooring field is 39 MILES PER HOUR in the last 4 years.

This is just ticking into tropical storm force category. Sam REFUSED to be nailed down on if the city considers this to be the top end of the mooring capacity, but it did see he intends to figure something out in this.

I'm personally moving to a different mooring in salt run as the mooring spec'd for smaller boats in shallower water have stronger tackle!

[Boatguy30]

I only wish our "pro business" state leaders would allow individuals to lease the bottom land (instead of giving it freely to cities) and install appropriate privately run moorings. Where's that neighbor of yours operating? I need to consider a move.

[zboss]

Originally Posted by Boatguy30

I only wish our "pro business" state leaders would allow individuals to lease the bottom land (instead of giving it freely to cities) and install appropriate privately run moorings. Where's that neighbor of yours operating? I need to consider a move.

I think Florida law allows you to put in your own mooring balls. In addition, I think its free except for some upfront fees. You should contact the Florida DEP.

[Boatguy30]

There is only one "legal" private mooring in St Augustine off a house on Inlet Dr. The homeowners pay tax on some submerged waters in salt run and many have built docks although their houses are on the inland side of the street. This guy doesn't have a dock and the mooring is way beyond the property line he pays tax in, but I guess its close enough.

I have been total by many people locally he has no actual permit. You think who would issue it?

[tomfl]

Originally Posted by zboss

SNIP

As far as running cash flow positive, I'm speculating here but I'm not really sure that was ever the intention.

SNIP

With that said, my neighbor operates about 20 moorings and charges $25 a night and they are pretty full all year long, so he is theoretically bringing in about 180K a year minus about 1K in maintenance expenses per ball per year and $1200 a year in seabed lease expense per year per ball (so about 140K a year max). Not bad considering he doesn't have to do any work himself.

The state mooring fields have mail and parcle service, dinghy docks, bathroom/showers, reading room, TV room, and work room. Free electric in the big work room and to charge your computer in the reading room. Plenty of dumpsters for trash and a good oil disposal site as well located in the adequate parking lot. There is also a pump out boat (two at Boot Key) that go out every day.

The pump out boat not only does the boats on the mooring balls, but all the boats in the harbor, even those that pay nothing. All the employees are entitled to standard govt benefits including retirement.

The state and local govts claim (not saying I agree with this) that there are non monetary benefits in terms of a cleaner and safer harbor. There is also suppose to be an external to the marina economic benefit from folks on boats shopping in town.

Where is your friend's mooring field located, sounds like a gold mine.

[zboss]

Originally Posted by Boatguy30

There is only one "legal" private mooring in St Augustine off a house on Inlet Dr. The homeowners pay tax on some submerged waters in salt run and many have built docks although their houses are on the inland side of the street. This guy doesn't have a dock and the mooring is way beyond the property line he pays tax in, but I guess its close enough.

I have been total by many people locally he has no actual permit. You think who would issue it?

I was looking at the rules for what Florida considers state land (underwater) and private underwater land. If you have a canal that enters (and is enclosed by) your property, such as you see down south a lot, that is private property and they can pretty much do what they want. If the land is state land, it appears that just about anyone can apply for a permit through the FDEP. I'm sure there are restrictions but you would have to talk to them directly.

Regardless as to the actual quality of the moorings, I have to agree with the last poster: with the city mooring you get dinghy dockage, shower, free pump outs, etc. $360 a month for us isn't bad and if you are a st. johns county resident, its even cheaper. Heck, up north you would be paying for the same type of mooring but at $65 a night.

[sailorboy1]

[QUOTE=zboss;1580385

Regardless as to the actual quality of the moorings, I have to agree with the last poster: with the city mooring you get dinghy dockage, shower, free pump outs, etc. $360 a month for us isn't bad and if you are a st. johns county resident, its even cheaper. Heck, up north you would be paying for the same type of mooring but at $65 a night.[/QUOTE]


Not really. With a seasonal mooring I get the same services plus get launch service for less than $360/mo. And it sounds the mooring equipment is a lot better.

But of course none of this matter as the point of the thread is really something else (rhymes with ant).

[DotDun]

IMO, Sarasota mooring field is also a bargain:

Monthly Rates:

29' or less - $250/month
30' - 49' - $270/month
50' + - $345/month

[Custom30]

Originally Posted by DotDun

IMO, Sarasota mooring field is also a bargain:

Monthly Rates:

29' or less - $250/month
30' - 49' - $270/month
50' + - $345/month

Anchoring where the Sarasota mooring field is before it was there:

Monthly Rates:

29' or less - $0/month
30' - 49' - $0/month
50' + - $0/month

This bargain is no longer available, thanks to the other bargain.

'

[Boatguy30]

Ah, but now you've just outed yourself as a dirtbag moocher.

On a related note, anyone have any large danforth or claw type anchors for sale cheap?

[DotDun]

Originally Posted by Custom30

Anchoring where the Sarasota mooring field is before it was there:

Monthly Rates:

29' or less - $0/month
30' - 49' - $0/month
50' + - $0/month

This bargain is no longer available, thanks to the other bargain.

'

Those prices are still available, just a longer dinghy ride to ..... oh, no upland services.

Zero amenities, exponentially more ground tackle/mooring failures with no one taking responsibility.