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Old 05-03-2011, 11:20   #16
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Re: SSCA call to action to end piracy!

Who could argue with that?
It's like calling for all children to get cookies and milk before naptime and everyone be nice to each other!

Problem is... it's not going to happen.
First of all 99.999% of the humans on this planet really could care less about the safety of "rich people on their yachts".

It's like saying we have to unite as a race of people and make sure that it is always safe for lion tamers to go into the cage no matter what it costs.

Everyone knows that the east coast of Africa is a very dangerous place. Everyone knows that outside the green-zone in Bagdad at mid-night is a very dangerous place. Everyone knows that the cocoa growing regions of Columbia are a very dangerous place.
You go there, you take your chances. Your choice. No one is making you go there. **** happens and people die. The world has never been a safe place and it never will be a safe place.

You want safe? Stay home and watch TV. Other than that there are no guarantees.
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Old 05-03-2011, 11:21   #17
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Re: SSCA call to action to end piracy!

IMHO, Capt Phil and Hummingway nailed the differences in our respective positions perfectly.
Can't remember which TV network it was, but recently saw an interview with a correspondent who stated that when interviewing Afghan natives in remote areas, met some who had NO knowledge of 9/11 events.
Different worlds, different priorities.
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Old 05-03-2011, 11:21   #18
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Re: SSCA call to action to end piracy!

Factories are manufacturing firearms, which at some point get sold to the wrong hands, as long as firearms will be manufactured they will always end-up in the hands of the other guys, the bad ones, and this is true for all nations, all countries, all groups, tribes, etc. Piracy is just one aspect of this international conspiracy to manufacture and sell firearms, the Americans are doing it, the French are doing it, the Russians and many others. It a business, regardless of who ends up at the other end of the guns, industrialized countries will continue to manufacture and sell weapons. C'est la vie.

Regardless, this initiative from the SSCA is in my opinion welcomed, although responding to violence by more violence may actually make things worse.

Could the money spent to protect freight against piracy be spent to improve living conditions in some countries where piracy is the only response to starvation?
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Old 05-03-2011, 12:13   #19
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Re: SSCA call to action to end piracy!

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Originally Posted by rolandgilbert99 View Post
Regardless, this initiative from the SSCA is in my opinion welcomed, although responding to violence by more violence may actually make things worse.
If you respond to violence with violence and it makes things worse, you didn't use enough violence. Violence should never be used as a response unless you are willing to use enough to stop further violence.
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Old 05-03-2011, 12:33   #20
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Re: SSCA call to action to end piracy!

WHile I am all in favor of the SSCA's stance, the sad fact is that until North Americans and Europeans start to feel the bite of piracy in their own pockets due to the rising costs of goods (shipping, security, etc), nothing will change.
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Old 05-03-2011, 13:37   #21
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Re: SSCA call to action to end piracy!

I fear it must get worse before it gets better. Cruisers should just stay out of the area untill the mess is cleaned up. Two dead folks from the PNW have provided ample proof of that that as far as I am concerned.

Todd
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Old 05-03-2011, 15:09   #22
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It's only a matter of time...

It's only a matter of time before the Somali pirates tire of taking their chances in a warship infested gulf and start moving on to the much richer pickings of Singapore, Malaysia and Western Australia.

Painful as it is to act now, it will be way more expensive and much more unpleasant than waiting for the inevitable.
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Old 05-03-2011, 17:13   #23
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Re: SSCA call to action to end piracy!

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I think you would be more likely to find the ransom monies stuffed under mattresses rather than in off shore accounts.
The Havala system is used. Kinda like Western Union. but traditional & based on Trust. and the ability to identify and kill the fella you gave the money to. and his family........if the cash doesn't arrive where it is meant to, whether that be the next town in some part of the world with no ATM's or to (and from) the West. The cash arrives in cash (it doesn't actually move by armoured car or camel of course ) or can arrive in a bank account for transfer onward (stage 1 of the money laundering acheived......after that it is a piece of piss). Most of the Somali money has probably been lent back by now to uncle Sam to help finance the deficit..........including anti Piracy patrols

In the UK unlicensed & unregulated banking is still tolerated (for certain "communities") as Govt scared of causing offence. Me would be going to prison......
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Old 05-03-2011, 17:21   #24
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Re: It's only a matter of time...

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Originally Posted by Boracay View Post
It's only a matter of time before the Somali pirates tire of taking their chances in a warship infested gulf and start moving on to the much richer pickings of Singapore, Malaysia and Western Australia.

Painful as it is to act now, it will be way more expensive and much more unpleasant than waiting for the inevitable.
That would present an easy solution. Hire the key Somalis for their expertise in logistics and strategic planning . Sustaining a naval operation accross the globe would be no mean feat - especially on a shoestring.

Singapore & Malaysia & Indonesia have always had Pirates. and always will. But they brought it down to a manageable problem in the same way that they would deal with any Somali Pirates venturing that far afield. The application of the rule of law (including a rope). and by use of a public private sector collaberation. Locals with existing "Business Interests" in that part of the world won't take kindly to others stealing from their rice bowl. and folks in those parts not known to f#ck around
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Old 05-03-2011, 19:22   #25
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pirate Re: SSCA call to action to end piracy!

Pity the Pirates

I plan to be a pirate and take myself to sea,
For nothing pays near half as much as blatant piracy,
Now here I sit in my own cockpit with nearly naught to drink,
It's just past dawn and the gin is gone so I'll change my ways, I think,
The Somali coast where the sun can roast you brown as brown can be,
Is where the money comes and goes from small boat piracy,
No more will I try to just squeak by on but a pound or two,
When ransoms in the millions can be had by me for you,
Yes, it's ransoms in the millions and I never work again,
No more these nasty fishing nets, I'll join the pirate men,
Oh, you may call them thieving, and you may call them vile,
But just be sure your bank can pay when they've had you for a while.
Yes, in that nasty little room where you're kept all neatly stowed,
It's hummus morning, noon and night, it's hummus over load.
So pity them, the pirates, for they know not what they do,
The mullahs never told them not to be a thieving crew.

Now they have got no worries, their future's ever pleasant,
The chap who could stop piracy, all he votes is "presant".
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Old 05-03-2011, 19:28   #26
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pirate Re: SSCA call to action to end piracy!

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Originally Posted by Captain Bill View Post
If you respond to violence with violence and it makes things worse, you didn't use enough violence. Violence should never be used as a response unless you are willing to use enough to stop further violence.
The only time I've known this to work was when the other guy was dead....
in these situations you can only hope its not YOU
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Old 05-03-2011, 20:04   #27
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Re: SSCA call to action to end piracy!

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Originally Posted by perchance View Post
Illegal arms dealers do not accept Visa, Mastercard or Interac. Cash only please.
What many may not realize is that Africa is awash in weapons. That's what makes the actions of the multinational force there so ineffective. Taking away the pirate's weapons & sending them home is no deterrant at all. In Mozambique, $50 will buy an AK47 & lots of ammo, an option I seriously considered when we had to transit the pirate waters.

I think the SSCA statement is well written & well considered. Perhaps not as forceful as I personally would like, but hopefully toned down enough to be more accepted by the decision makers. I REALLY hope it inspires a policy change & some real action.

BTW, those who'd like to reply to the SSCA proposal can do so here.
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Old 06-03-2011, 00:52   #28
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Re: SSCA call to action to end piracy!

Having served in the U.S. Navy, and then served in the U.S. Merchant Marine just prior to the Mayaguez incident. I believe that reading about the actions taken to rescue the Mayaguez will greatly inform this discussion on the SSCA proposed call to action.

Mayaguez incident - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It is my belief that the SSCA should refrain from specifying any action that they themselves can not implement. Instead, they could express the SSCA's support of rescue efforts even when those efforts may result in the lost of life.

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Old 06-03-2011, 03:03   #29
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Re: SSCA call to action to end piracy!

Gord, thanks for keeping the discussion on this topic open by starting another thread. This is a very complex issue, it's going to spark debate, and posters are therefore continually walking along the thin line of what's CF-appropriate and what's not.

I think the SSCA's statement reveals a similar lack of appreciation for the complexity of the situation. Governments haven't paid a penny of the ransoms to date (corporations and individuals have), and are doing what they can to patrol the area. The problem is that they constitutionally do not have the power to criminalize such payments, and the area they are attempting to secure is simply too big. And to violate sovereignty rights by launching military operations against another country, the fact that we're talking about Somalia here doesn't matter, it is still an act of war. And to try and educate the Somalis that piracy is not a morally sound occupational choice is quite simply banal - these people are desperate and will feed themselves any way that they can.

Looking at what has worked to deter piracy and what hasn't, it's become almost obvious that lumbering warships hundreds of miles from a pirated boat aren't going to be very effective in preventing one of the key goals, i.e. stop the vessel from reaching Somalian waters. It's going to be up to the vessel owners and operators to figure out a way to disable the vessel so it remains in international waters long enough for the rescue party to arrive.

It's also going to be up to the owners and operators to figure out a way to protect the crew from being seized until this happens. Ships are built of solid steel, I can't quite figure out why this is such a big problem.

In conclusion, the goal to making the military operation more effective would be to deny pirates the two things they need to demand a ransom - a ship that's mobile and a crew that they can take hostage quickly.

Once the principal money-maker, commercial traffic, dries up, private yachts will lose much of their appeal. But, again, security solutions here (convoys, armed security on board) will be a private sector affair.

BWS
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Old 06-03-2011, 07:23   #30
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Re: SSCA call to action to end piracy!

I believe a call for nations to take effective action against the pirates is appropriate.

However, the essence of cruising is self-sufficiency and self-reliance and I have significant issue with the follow part of the SSCA message:

"We must offer assistance to the more than 100 private vessels, both US-flagged and foreign, who have little choice but to use this route . . . . Nevertheless, there should be an absolute commitment to protecting the safety of those needing to voyage through these waters"

First the cruisers do have several choices. They are NOT forced to use the Red Sea route.

Second, the cruisers have no 'right' to any naval protection or safety, much less an 'absolute commitment' which is a very expensive thing.

Every cruiser in Asia today already knew ahead of time about the pirate situation. And everyone who took even a moment to study it knew it was getting worse year by year. The situation is unfortunate but everyone involved knew there was a significant potential problem. It's their decision and choice to be there. Unlike the commercial seamen, they have chosen to be there for their own pleasure. I do not and have not criticized them for being there. Nor do I or will I criticize them if they weight the risks and choose to still go thru the Red sea route (not something I personally would do). That's their chose and decision, but it is a choice and decision for a pleasure cruise and they DO have alternatives (S Africa, spending another season in the Indian ocean, shipping the boat, etc).

One of the most marvelous things about the cruising life is the individual freedom and responsibility and accountability and accomplishment. You are there on your boat making your own decisions and making your own dreams come true. In return for that freedom you have to take responsibility for your own actions and decisions.
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