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Old 23-08-2008, 05:57   #61
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Based on my experiences cruising the eastern Caribbean, I believe that outfitting your boat with alarms and bright lights, locking up tight, and having pepper spray on hand would be all you would need to do, and it would be the most effective and legal way to protect yourselves and your possessions. It would be very unlikely that you'd even need to use the pepper spray.

Almost all of the theft-related crimes in this region are by "stealth", and the perps depart quickly when detected. But even the (extremely rare) boarders armed with machetes and/or firearms would be reluctant to stay around on a locked up boat when the lights and commotion starts.

I have a container of pepper spray on the boat. It's the kind that emits a stream of liquid, not a cloud of mist. It needs to be aimed to be effective, but will not spread out all over the place and choke you as well as the criminal. As far as legality is concerned, we've visited all of the islands but three, from Vieques to Grenada, and the only thing they ask on the inbound clearance forms is, "do you have firearms or ammunition". Nothing about Mace or pepper spray, or anything else.
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Old 23-08-2008, 05:58   #62
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FYI--Here's another, very similar thread to this one that got a lot of play a few months ago: http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...afe-14565.html
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Old 23-08-2008, 07:21   #63
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"As far as legality is concerned, we've visited all of the islands but three, from Vieques to Grenada, and the only thing they ask on the inbound clearance forms is, "do you have firearms or ammunition". Nothing about Mace or pepper spray, or anything else."

Thanks Hud, this is the kind of information I was looking for ,first hand experience!
Steve
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Old 23-08-2008, 08:28   #64
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Hud,

Thanks for that.

It got me wondering about where one might get a good guality recording of a barking dog, which led me to think about an electronic barking dog I saw advertised in a boating magazine many months ago. I did a Google search on it. There's a lot of them on the market. I really like the idea.
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Old 23-08-2008, 12:10   #65
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Concerning passive defense, I always wear a chastity belt when anchored in questionable areas. I feel this adequately protects all that I hold dear.
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Old 23-08-2008, 12:31   #66
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In my experience pepper spray is pretty debilitating, and rather staining, it's better to just keep a gun and shoot someone in the leg, then they'll leave.

You pepper spray them, if it even effects them (it doesn't effect everyone) they'll probably thrash around your boat.
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Old 24-08-2008, 05:12   #67
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FreeMason - That is some of the worst advice I have ever seen on this forum.

First, shooting to wound only exists in TV and Hollywood and a shot to the leg can result in immediate death (femoral artery) at worst or a shattered thighbone/tibia/fibula - neither are condusive to having the perp walk away. There is no such thing as civilians not "shooting to kill". If you don't need to stop someone from attacking you then you don't shoot. One doesn't engange in any nonsense like shooting firearms out of people's hands.

More importantly, intentionally shooting someone in the leg in most of the US States will put you in jail. It basically boils down to "if you have the time and capability of shooting in order to debilitate someone then you were not in mortal danger and thus had no cause to shoot". This makes you guilty of a felony, rather than the robber. I'd much rather have them thrash about the boat without leaving bloodstains. That way, when they recover from the initial dose, I can once again consider them a serious threat and defend myself with another judicious dose of pepper spray.

Also, unlike in the movies, pepper spray does affect everyone - but to varying degrees. All people will lose their vision but some (particularly those under the influence of drugs) might still be able to partially function.
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Old 24-08-2008, 05:27   #68
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Also, unlike in the movies, pepper spray does affect everyone - but to varying degrees. All people will lose their vision but some (particularly those under the influence of drugs) might still be able to partially function.
I just had a thought. If a bad guy was pepper sprayed and fell overboard. What are the chances of him drowning ?
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Old 24-08-2008, 05:32   #69
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Morgan - I've been OC'd, Peppered and Maced (all for training and practice purposes) so speak from a bit of experience and I would hesitate to say that, unless the person could grab onto something to hold on to such as a rope, dinghy or other flotation item, the chances are pretty high that they would drown if they got a full dose and went overboard.
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Old 24-08-2008, 06:02   #70
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So than it sounds to me like the strategy would be to give the bad guy a full dose or even better an overdose of pepper spray and hope he falls overboard. Pull anchor and move. If he stays on the boat, and you are in a remote area, you would have to kill him somehow before the effects of the pepper spray wore off. Otherwise you will have to latter deal with a really pissed off bad guy.

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Morgan - I've been OC'd, Peppered and Maced (all for training and practice purposes) so speak from a bit of experience and I would hesitate to say that, unless the person could grab onto something to hold on to such as a rope, dinghy or other flotation item, the chances are pretty high that they would drown if they got a full dose and went overboard.
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Old 24-08-2008, 06:13   #71
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Morgan - I wouldn't necessarily want to produce a corpse from a robbery attempt.

The BG may be angry and pi**ed off, but the recovery process from being sprayed is pretty slow, imagine the worst hangover you ever had, add the feeling of having smoked a carton of cigars (with inhaling), all at the same time with the worst congestive cold you've had and after having rubbed Tabasco in your eyes.
At some point the BG will once again be kind of mobile, and if given incentive by gentle prodding with a boat-hook or winch handle (not the plastic floating kind!) they will proceed overboard and by that time they will be able to swim.

Unfortunately for the robber, all that seawater won't wash off pepper spray.
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Old 24-08-2008, 06:20   #72
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Come on, guys. Dave started this thread to talk about the non-lethal security measures that he's taken aboard his boat. Let's keep the discussion away from shooting, wounding and killing people. Experience shows that that kind of talk has always ended up escalating to the point where the thread was closed, after most members got disgusted and quit reading.

Thanks.
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Old 24-08-2008, 06:21   #73
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I knew there was some thread drift here; mea culpa.

Pepper spray is and remains a non-lethal defensive mechanism.
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Old 24-08-2008, 06:29   #74
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Pepper spray is and remains a non-lethal defensive mechanism.
But not if the bad guy is sprayed and falls overboard and drowns.
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Old 24-08-2008, 07:00   #75
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I have a Flux Capacitor in my cockpit with a pressure switch that sends them into the future where by then I have left.
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