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Old 22-08-2008, 09:06   #46
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Good grief, all of this testosterone and nowhere to go. Can we switch back to a practical discussion of security and get off the moral, legal, and tactical sidetracks?
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Old 22-08-2008, 09:14   #47
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Can we switch back to a practical discussion of security and get off the moral, legal, and tactical sidetracks?
Sorry Roy, this train is going any place but rational. You'll need to jump off avoiding the booby traps before it goes over the edge.
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Old 22-08-2008, 09:27   #48
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Good grief, all of this testosterone and nowhere to go. Can we switch back to a practical discussion of security and get off the moral, legal, and tactical sidetracks?
Maybe that's the problem...

Do any of us know what a "practical discussion" of security is?

What would it entail?

Can there be such a thing as a practical discussion on this topic?
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Old 22-08-2008, 09:37   #49
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I am not sure that I understand your broad swipe at the direction(s) that this thread is taking. The thread started with some practical suggestions on improving security/reducing risk of loss and, for the most part, has continued in that direction. Whether you agree with the suggestions concerning everything from alarm systems, to spare wallets, to fake safes and even to 'safe rooms' doesn't matter - surely they are all relevant to the topic at hand. As to non-passive tools (weapons), legal as well as moral issues necessarily arise in that connection. I have chosen passive methods for security (as have Sean and others), but that surely does not mean that active measures are irrelevant?

Brad
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Old 22-08-2008, 11:29   #50
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I like the idea of pepper spray I like the idea of a gun better but it looks like haveing one on board will cause more problems that it is worth unless one day you really really need it like the folks in Rio Lindo.
I read earlier they (pepper sprays) might be illegal in some countries, is that actually so? Have any of the experienced cruisers actually been asked first hand if it is on board? It seems like a can mixed in with all the bug and cleaning sprays would go undetected
although I would not like to make a false statement if asked directly about it.
If pepper spray is banned how about bear spray with a big picture of a bear on the label, pretty much the same thing, justifiable for use on dogs or other "animals".
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Old 22-08-2008, 11:32   #51
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Pblais, Thanks for the sound advice, it wound right up immediatly after. See you guys on another thread.
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Old 22-08-2008, 11:57   #52
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my particular boat has large tempered glass doors for entry from the cockpit and tempered glass for settee windows. Nice, scratch resistant, and I'm sure a blow with a machete would shatter it in a thousand pieces. I'm thinking of putting up something like a shattergard film on the inside, it would protect both from intruders and from sharp blowing objects. Also lighting is important, clamp on solar power rail lights, transom lights, etc are all great. Sirens would be fantastic, even if you don't have something available to defend yourself a thief in the middle of the night standing in a floodlight with a loud siren going off around him will not be looking into your boat but looking around him trying to figure out who else is now watching him and if they are armed and probably after 2 seconds will probably decide to get out while he can. Of course, for someone who wants to board your boat, in broad daylight, with lots of his friends, I'd probably opt for a retreat, hoping the doors would slow him down long enough that I could escape with my family using dolphin escape hatches between the hulls and scuba gear. I know it sounds silly, to grab a mask, fins and tank and go, but I really couldn't think of a safer alternative. If you wanted to have an incentive for them to go you could open a bottle of ammonia and bleach in the head just before you dove out the hatch.
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Old 22-08-2008, 18:58   #53
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Originally Posted by ssullivan View Post
Maybe that's the problem...

Do any of us know what a "practical discussion" of security is?

What would it entail?

Can there be such a thing as a practical discussion on this topic?
My “land” home is on a remote Island that has a big draw for tourists as well as a large ex-pat community. It is generally considered a safe place to live and/or visit.

A few years back, there was a slate of home robberies that focused on the ex-pats.

A local retired army Colonel started a gun club where most of the expats joined and practiced their shooting skills in a friendly competitive environment. We developed a proper shooting range and held a number of competitions with national clubs.

The robberies stopped!
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Old 22-08-2008, 20:27   #54
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Having plodded though these posts...the theme that seems to come out is the same-old discussions about deadly force....guns....wacky schemes for protection.....safe room? Good Grief.......If there was a safe room....I would sure as heck get in there to see what was being kept safe......

The best action is situational awareness.....

Sometimes I think people read to many "sea stories" or put themselves in harms way.
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Old 22-08-2008, 21:33   #55
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How about a net that drops down, captures the criminal then automatically hoists them up with your main halyard to display them for the next 12 hours until the authorities take them away.

The tacks on deck sound great. It'd be awesome to have the spreader lights go on at the same time - along with a security camera to capture it all on video that you can play at the local bar during the next Happy Hour which may also help in identifying the crook.

I like the No Tresspasing Sign that goes along with a "Premises Protected by Smith 'n Wesson" although I don't care to carry a gun. It would probably intimidate a potential thief, but then again, he would already be on board and ready to make the heist.

Dave's suggestion of having a fake wallet in plain view that contained a small amount of cash is a great idea. Make them feel like they scored. I've done something similar in several third world countries where I would have my cash 'n credit cards stashed in my underwear if I felt like it was a sketchy hood.

We had a crack head break into our rental house in Hawaii a couple years ago. He was totally wacked out of his mind. These are the most dangerous type of criminals since they have no logic whatsoever.
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Old 22-08-2008, 21:51   #56
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I read earlier they (pepper sprays) might be illegal in some countries, is that actually so? Have any of the experienced cruisers actually been asked first hand if it is on board? It seems like a can mixed in with all the bug and cleaning sprays would go undetected although I would not like to make a false statement if asked directly about it.
Yes in many countries it is a no-no. You can have it and other weapons aboard when you arrive here for example (NZ) but you will be asked if you have any aboard and they WILL be taken off you until you leave when they are given back on outwards Customs Clearance. If you play by the rules it is drama and cost free. If you say No and then it is found out after you have, jail time and possible boat confiscation. It is taken very seriously for us in countries of no weapons*.

The same applies to most countries down this way.

* - I say no guns even though NZ has one of the highest rates of ownership, it's just that we and the police don't carry them around, not allowed. If you are a duck, pig, deer or similar this is not a safe country for you

I think in the big scheme of things, there just isn't the threats out there many think there is. Sure nasty stuff happens but it is pretty isolated and smart thinking can avoid most.

What about an electric fence unit hooked to your life lines? A quick few volts blasted down your arm as you try to hop out of the dingy would have to make you think twice.
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Old 22-08-2008, 22:41   #57
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Originally Posted by Chief Engineer View Post
Having plodded though these posts...the theme that seems to come out is the same-old discussions about deadly force....guns....wacky schemes for protection.....safe room? Good Grief.......If there was a safe room....I would sure as heck get in there to see what was being kept safe......

The best action is situational awareness.....

Sometimes I think people read to many "sea stories" or put themselves in harms way.
Totally agree Chiefy as I said in my first post.

But I also believe that we should practice what all countries, the legal system and any event where violence can take place place, practice.

It is called the perception of mutual deterrence!

Passivity does not enhance that perception.
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Old 22-08-2008, 22:51   #58
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Having plodded though these posts...the theme that seems to come out is the same-old discussions about deadly force....guns....wacky schemes for protection.....safe room? Good Grief.......If there was a safe room....I would sure as heck get in there to see what was being kept safe......

The best action is situational awareness.....

Sometimes I think people read to many "sea stories" or put themselves in harms way.
yeah.... good grief...

So glad I shared my idea.

The idea is to put only yourself in the safe room and leave all the valuables out, where they normally are for the taking. If you have a gun, it goes in the room with you. Are you unable to understand how this would work? Do I *really* have post all the baby steps?

So far, it's the only legal post other than just sitting there having tea with the intruders.

What's the point in posting a new (non-violent) idea when somebody personally attacks you?

Your post is kind of lame too, since everyone knows situational awareness is the first defense. I could easily be aware that someone happens to be kicking my door down too.
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Old 22-08-2008, 23:17   #59
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Oh crap.. guns and name calling in the same thread.

Be aware everyone, I haven't pushed the BRB (big red button) on any thread for a while so are hanging a bit for a reason to do so, we've been a bit short on spammers lately.

Play nice please, Thank you.
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Old 22-08-2008, 23:59   #60
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I installed a car burgular alarm, it is connected to the speader lights (instead of headlight) . The siren is up the mast pointing down and I have a strobe to add to it.
When arming and disarming it the spreader lights come on but not the siren.
Using the remote makes it easier to find the boat in a dark anchorage after happy hours.
This is an idea that makes sense to me. We have a home security system that runs on 12 volts. It includes motion detection sensors, sound frequency sensors, and magnetic contact sensors all powered by small lithium batteries. The brains of the unit are a couple of circuit boards that would fit in a box the size of an average hardcover book plus a remote keypad. The companionway, other large hatches, and folding boarding ladder could be fitted with magnetic contact sensors. A motion sensor could be positioned to sweep the deck with the sensitivity adjusted so passing boaters do not set it off. All wired in to the spreader lights and an alarm siren like bmartinsen has done. While it may not be as effective in a remote anchorage when you are the only one around I think in many areas it could prove effective. Unlike some ideas mentioned it will even work when you are away from the boat. It does take proper setup and adjustment to avoid false alarms that my annoy fellow boaters. I think the home type systems would be better than the typical car alarm systems.
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