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Old 27-10-2014, 09:16   #46
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Re: Securing the Companionway Hatch

Hello Rog,

The part of my message that was directly addressed to you was:

Quote:
DUH! Absolutely! Seconds count.
The rest of it is in general... Sorry, my post wasn't just about you...

Quote:
I can assure you that whoever is/are the unfortunate soul(s) who travel in your company on a boat will never survive even a mild attack with your only means of protection being a $20. lock and a frying pan.
I am very skilled with a frying pan

This was only an example. Of course I would not count just on that

Gil.
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Old 27-10-2014, 09:18   #47
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Re: Securing the Companionway Hatch

Quote:
Originally Posted by maytrix View Post
... I'm not sure why you are so quick to dismiss extra security such as "bars and bolts"...
Exactly!
Lock it, or lose it* is simple prudence. It's not about creating an impregnable fortress/citadel.
* ➥ https://www.google.ca/search?q=Lock+...H-3L8gfo6YHoBw
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Old 27-10-2014, 09:19   #48
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Re: Securing the Companionway Hatch

"I'm not sure why you are so quick to dismiss extra security such as "bars and bolts".

What areas have you cruised? " Matrix


Matrix,
I would then ask what is your reason for cruising to certain areas if your vessel needs to become an iron bar fortress and imminent safety is a daily issue? It's not that way everywhere. It's your choice, your life.
In regards to your second question, we lived aboard for ten years full time in south Florida, the Bahamas and the Caribbean. I have also owned another boat on Lake Michigan for 25 years. Inquiring minds want to know.
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Old 27-10-2014, 09:29   #49
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Re: Securing the Companionway Hatch

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Originally Posted by rognvald View Post
I would then ask what is your reason for cruising to certain areas if your vessel needs to become an iron bar fortress and imminent safety is a daily issue? It's not that way everywhere. It's your choice, your life.
Because criminals aren't restricted to certain areas. The chance may be far greater in some areas and far less in others. There's no area though that is 100% safe.

Why are you so against added protection? I admit I haven't seen Marks boat, but I don't think it looks like a fortress - it simply has a gate instead of the cheap easy to kick in panels that normally block access to the interior.

We aren't cruising now, but we will be in the future and I will be securing the hatch in similar fashion as Mark did. And we won't be cruising to high risk areas either. I simply see it as added security - if someone is cruising an anchorage looking for a target, the boat with the least security will likely be that target.
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Old 27-10-2014, 10:23   #50
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Re: Securing the Companionway Hatch

"There's no area though that is 100% safe." Matrix


M,
This is what is called a "red herring" in philosophy. Of course there is nowhere that is 100 percent safe, but an anchorage in Noddy Bay, Newfoundland or one in the Jumentos Islands of the Bahamas, for example, is the closest to 100% safe that you might ever find. One could also say the reverse when sailing the north coast of South America, close to shore, has the highest probability of danger that one could expect. I'm not criticizing Mark or his practices. They work for him and that's all that matters. However, the day that I have to turn my boat into a floating fortress is the day when I must seriously question my reason for sailing to areas where that is a concern. I sail because I love to sail. That is even more important than where I sail although I do love beautiful anchorages off the beaten path which we have visited and enjoyed over the years. And, I will continue to sail to those areas as long as they are untouched by the depredations of Man. Good luck and good sailing.
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Old 27-10-2014, 10:46   #51
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Re: Securing the Companionway Hatch

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Dannc,
Sounds like you are a man with common sense and I would guess you'll be just fine in your future travels. Good luck and safe sailing. P.S. From someone who lived in Miami for many years . . . do you have to be so hard on those well meaning seasoned hookers? Good luck and good trolling.
I am sure the Miami Beach ladies have improved greatly since I was down there in the early 80's!

Out of curiosity, I looked at that marina on Google Earth earlier in the year and it has greatly changed since we where there last century. It looks really nice. I would think the ladies would have improved as well. Miami Beach back then was pretty run down.

Later,
Dan
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Old 27-10-2014, 11:13   #52
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Re: Securing the Companionway Hatch

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Originally Posted by rognvald View Post
However, the day that I have to turn my boat into a floating fortress is the day when I must seriously question my reason for sailing to areas where that is a concern.
So you think Marks metal hatch turns his boat into a fortress? I believe the alternative is wooden boards - I think the hatch is not only more secure, but also provides ventilation. And someone cruising an anchorage looking for a target can see it.

We plan on spending time in the USVI, BVI and other islands in the Caribbean. Pretty much safe areas, although that doesn't mean crime doesn't exist.

You keep pointing to extremes and referring to making the boat a fortress..etc when I don't think that is what anyone is talking about. Just prudent and simple measures that help make the boat a bit more secure. I'm not sure I understand why you seem to argue against that. The OP was looking to find ways to secure the hatch and your answer is just go places it isn't necessary, but fact is even in places like the USVI and BVI which are considered safe, crime still happens.
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Old 27-10-2014, 11:45   #53
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Re: Securing the Companionway Hatch

"You keep pointing to extremes and referring to making the boat a fortress..etc when I don't think that is what anyone is talking about. Just prudent and simple measures that help make the boat a bit more secure. I'm not sure I understand why you seem to argue against that." Matrix


M,
I think I have explained my point clearly and concisely. It is obvious, from your above remark, that you haven't read my response with forethought or that you don't understand what I have written. I will accept that as a given and wish you much success in your future cruising adventures. Good luck and good sailing.
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Old 27-10-2014, 12:22   #54
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Re: Securing the Companionway Hatch

I understand plenty of what you are saying. Common sense does prevail and certainly there are places you can go where you are safer than you would be in other places. And clearly you won't be installing a hatch like Marks.

Like I've already said, I just don't understand why you'd dismiss it as a good extra measure to take. I didn't see anyone here dismissing your thought of going to "safe" places even though that is less of a safety measure than adding a more secure hatch. I plan on being in "safe" areas yet will still install something like that, because any extra precaution I can take to protect my family is worth it.
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Old 27-10-2014, 13:04   #55
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Re: Securing the Companionway Hatch

I find this topic to be interesting.

I would like to see photos (or links) of recommended (better) locks and associated security devices such as the grill insert that MarkJ uses.
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But...
Much of the previous discussion seems to be coming from several argument positions (which I am posting with some paraphrased statements to illustrate the positions:

1. Don't Go There Policy
"I don't visit unsafe places."
"Just avoid the bad places."

2. Open Door Policy
"I never lock my doors." "I live where I don't have to lock the door."
"A lock will not stop anyone, so they are useless."

3. Minimizing Damage to My Boat Policy
"I would prefer they enter and take stuff without damaging my woodwork by busting the companionway."
"It is only material stuff I can easily replace. I say let them take it."

4. Minimizing Risk to Myself or My Family Policy
"Security Comes from Preventing or Delaying Entry"
"Any obstacle that alerts me (by noise) or delays the entry of intruders helps me."
"I would rather have any amount of extra time to prepare a defense of myself, family, and boat."

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It seems to me that some of the arguments are mixing up things by changes of scenarios and what may be appropriate for one situation may seem overkill or inadequate in another situation.

For example, one person may be concerned with locking up an unoccupied (and presumed empty) boat in storage. Another may be concerned about losing their irreplaceable possessions (while cruising or at anchor). Another considers the risk of what may happen (rape/murder/personal injury) if an intruder comes aboard while the owner (and family) is asleep.

From my perspective, those are entirely different situations that could lead to different considerations of what is adequate or the best level of locking/security of the companionway.

Then too, the location of a boat, whether it is in a remote (possibly risky) place or isolated in an anchorage, or in a crowded moorage or marina (with neighbors a few feet away) would seem to make a difference to me. I suppose that would be considered "situational awareness" to some. Does one feel safer in a marina in a crime ridden major city, or in an anchorage in a third world country?

_______________

My personal position on this issue?

Short answer: A good security device is better than nothing. So, I fit more with Position #4 above, Minimizing Risk to Myself or My Family Policy.

I think locks of any kind simply indicate that the door is not open to entry to anyone (but the owner of the key). Locks (or similar devices) will deter some, but not all intruders. But, having NO lock will only deter the honest people. Since honest people won't enter anyway, the only concern is for deterring (or possibly preventing) or delaying entry of the dishonest and possibly dangerous.

My position is reflective of the fact that while I grew up in a house where the doors were never locked, I have been burgled (twice), and had important things stolen from me. So, I like the idea of a simple "security grill" or bars that provides more resistance to entry, early warning of entry of intruders (due to noise), and yet also provides ability to allow for ventilation.

While a crowbar may defeat any lock or grill on a boat, IF I am aboard the boat (e.g. sleeping while at anchor), I would like to hear (be wakened and warned) while the intruder is trying to force the more difficult obstacle. If it gives me a few minutes of warning, that is valuable as it may give me the time to warn off the intruder in a non-lethal manner.

So, I am in favor of seeing more examples (hint: photos) of companionway security devices (grills, bar installations, locks) within this topic's discussion.
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Old 27-10-2014, 14:56   #56
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Re: Securing the Companionway Hatch

O.K.,
Even a stubborn guy can be convinced. So, after much consideration I've decided to beef up the security of my vessel just to be on the safe side. Here's Rognvald heading into St. Maarten looking for a spot next to Mark's boat. I hope he won't hold a grudge. Please tell him I like Russian Vodka . . . shaken not stirred. Anchors away!
Battleship USS Missouri (BB-63) Firing 16 Inch Main Guns - YouTube
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Old 27-10-2014, 15:38   #57
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Re: Securing the Companionway Hatch

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My partner has complete trust and faith in my abilities and knowledge and has never questioned my decisions which she has based upon years of first hand experience in our relationship.
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Old 27-10-2014, 16:36   #58
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Re: Securing the Companionway Hatch

This may help, if posted on the companionway hatch boards or "grill."

They also make these worded in bilingual forms such as:
"Cuidado, perro bravo" or "Cuidado Perro"

Orůsince many will sail to Latin America, one could try the classic wording in Latin: "cave canem." Of course this is posted for fun.
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Old 08-11-2014, 08:49   #59
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Re: Securing the Companionway Hatch

I hope I don't need to apologize to revive this thread, but for those who want an early warning system without undue cost(under $50.00), may I suggest a cockpit light with a switch near your sleeping quarters and an inexpensive door alarm mounted on your companionway with a loud audible warning signal. This will give you plenty of time to respond and with the addition of the bright light would discourage all but the most determined thieves. Good luck and good sailing. idealinc.com/ideal/securityprotection.php?...securityProtection...SK621
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