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Old 03-10-2015, 15:58   #31
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Re: Safety of Ships' Lifeboats in Major Storms

Not entirely relevant to the question but Captain Bligh made it OK in an open longboat from near Tahiti to Timor with from memory 23 on board. Also Shackleton in freezing stormy conditions in a longboat in Antarctica. I think the outcome all goes back to the skill of those people involved.
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Old 03-10-2015, 16:02   #32
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Re: Safety of Ships' Lifeboats in Major Storms

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Originally Posted by GrahamHO View Post
Not entirely relevant to the question but Captain Bligh made it OK in an open longboat from near Tahiti to Timor with from memory 23 on board. Also Shackleton in freezing stormy conditions in a longboat in Antarctica. I think the outcome all goes back to the skill of those people involved.
Not in a hurricane they didn't.
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Old 03-10-2015, 16:04   #33
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Re: Safety of Ships' Lifeboats in Major Storms

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Originally Posted by GrahamHO View Post
Not entirely relevant to the question but Captain Bligh made it OK in an open longboat from near Tahiti to Timor with from memory 23 on board. Also Shackleton in freezing stormy conditions in a longboat in Antarctica. I think the outcome all goes back to the skill of those people involved.
Shackletons boat was not an open boat... the carpenter converted the open long boat to completely enclosed.

Bligh I think had heavy weather but no cyclones/hurricanes.

But you are right about their experience - a modern ships crew knows little about sms boats but old sailing ships used the small boats all day every day except for when on passage.
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Old 03-10-2015, 16:06   #34
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Re: Safety of Ships' Lifeboats in Major Storms

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Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate View Post
^^^Just one ping, huh? How did you discover that? Yes, it sounds a total nightmare. Still, I aminterested in the lifeboat aspect of it. Especially about the uncovered nature of them and the launching difficulties.

Ann
Assuming it was the first live ping, this indicates the beacon was unable to transmit (for whatever reason) after approximately two to three minutes.

FWIW, the first transmission occurs within milliseconds after switch on but this transmission is not "live" in so far as it's coding goes. The first "live" ping occurs about 1 minute later and then they are repeated in approximately one minute intervals.

Of course we don't know the exact situation of how, when or why the first ping was received but however you look at it, it isn't good.

It would be nice to know which beacon was activated as there is possibly more than one beacon on board.

Back to the lifeboat aspect, do any of the commercial shipping folk (F V & El P etc) know if it is usual to have an EPRIB (and/or SARTs) in each lifeboat or only on the ship?
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Old 03-10-2015, 16:20   #35
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Re: Safety of Ships' Lifeboats in Major Storms

This is the kind of lifeboat I would want, if given a choice.

It has the world record for free fall drop. Very cool video with slo mo and very high drop!

http://youtu.be/2uK3gxZs4jE

http://youtu.be/RDER8cL8EXs

But the launches could be exciting. But at least they get launched and away from the sinking or burning ship.

http://youtu.be/n9AmvrTeoXU
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Old 03-10-2015, 16:25   #36
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Re: Safety of Ships' Lifeboats in Major Storms

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Back to the lifeboat aspect, do any of the commercial shipping folk (F V & El P etc) know if it is usual to have an EPRIB (and/or SARTs) in each lifeboat or only on the ship?
AFIK NOT usual to have any of these because SOLAS A do not demand/suggest them.

http://www.uscg.mil/d13/cfvs/PDFs/nvic1-92ch1.pdf

http://www.viking-life.com/viking.nsf/public/downloads-downloadbrochures.html/$file/SOLAS_APACK.pdf

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Old 03-10-2015, 16:53   #37
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Re: Safety of Ships' Lifeboats in Major Storms

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Not in a hurricane they didn't.
No hurricane for Bligh but you read Shackletons account and it was as close to hurricane conditions as could be, and they were dodging ice. Hurricane conditions can be "normal" down there.
I'm sure they would have loved to have a modern lifeboat. Shackleton would likely have reached South America in one.
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Old 03-10-2015, 18:20   #38
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Re: Safety of Ships' Lifeboats in Major Storms

Lifeboats are inspected monthly by the 3rd mate and annually by the USCG which includes launching and certification of the davits. Launching in a storm from a ship that's listing and dead in the water meaning it'd be lying ahull would be a major problem. An open lifeboat is plenty seaworthy though an enclosed one would keep more water out. Either one offers little comfort.

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Old 03-10-2015, 18:51   #39
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Re: Safety of Ships' Lifeboats in Major Storms

Life ring from the ship found 70nms north of last position
http://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2015/10/03/fate-of-cargo-ship-caught-in-hurricane-joaquin-unknown


In my view this is not good news.
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Old 03-10-2015, 19:03   #40
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Re: Safety of Ships' Lifeboats in Major Storms

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Life ring from the ship found 70nms north of last position
http://www.usnews.com/news/world/art...oaquin-unknown


In my view this is not good news.
Oh dear. Debris field. The triangulation begins. Poor guys.

The drift rate of a life ring is quite high. Probably about the same as a swamped lifeboat.

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Old 03-10-2015, 23:00   #41
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Re: Safety of Ships' Lifeboats in Major Storms

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Originally Posted by Wotname View Post
Assuming it was the first live ping, this indicates the beacon was unable to transmit (for whatever reason) after approximately two to three minutes.

FWIW, the first transmission occurs within milliseconds after switch on but this transmission is not "live" in so far as it's coding goes. The first "live" ping occurs about 1 minute later and then they are repeated in approximately one minute intervals.

Of course we don't know the exact situation of how, when or why the first ping was received but however you look at it, it isn't good.

It would be nice to know which beacon was activated as there is possibly more than one beacon on board.

Back to the lifeboat aspect, do any of the commercial shipping folk (F V & El P etc) know if it is usual to have an EPRIB (and/or SARTs) in each lifeboat or only on the ship?
current iteration of SOLAS for unlimited tonnage vessels on oceanic routes stipulates epirbs in the lifeboats. the problem with what the el faro was carrying aren't the boats so much as the davits they launch from. with the more modern freefall lifeboats everybody gets in, straps in, hatch gets shut, someone pulls the release lever, boat drops free. done.

the el faro carried open boats on old school gravity davits. gravity dvaits work well enough the problem is that someone has to stay on deck to operate the davit to lower the lifeboat to the water, and then climb down a jacobs ladder to board the lifeboat. the information I'm getting from the network of maine maritime alums is that the first pings were from 2 containers which had GPS transponders on them then the ships EPIRB ping was picked up later. problem is now the EPIRB has gone silent and nothing more than a few life rings have been found. combine that with the initial report from the ship they had lost power, we're experiencing flooding and were carrying a 15 degree list, also the fact that a deep draft ship without power will lay beam to the seas in short order that speaks to me of a ship that rolled then sank very quickly. this one is unfortunately hitting very close to home, 2 of my schoolmates were aboard that ship.
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Old 04-10-2015, 00:04   #42
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Re: Safety of Ships' Lifeboats in Major Storms

I'm pretty sure SOLAS doesn't require EPIRBs in every life boat, only SARTs
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Old 04-10-2015, 02:50   #43
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Re: Safety of Ships' Lifeboats in Major Storms

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Originally Posted by Steady Hand View Post
This is the kind of lifeboat I would want, if given a choice.

It has the world record for free fall drop. Very cool video with slo mo and very high drop!

http://youtu.be/2uK3gxZs4jE

http://youtu.be/RDER8cL8EXs

But the launches could be exciting. But at least they get launched and away from the sinking or burning ship.

http://youtu.be/n9AmvrTeoXU
They dont always work as planned

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Old 04-10-2015, 03:00   #44
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Re: Safety of Ships' Lifeboats in Major Storms

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They dont always work as planned

And everyone died of whip lash
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Old 04-10-2015, 07:01   #45
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Re: Safety of Ships' Lifeboats in Major Storms

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Originally Posted by Wotname View Post
Assuming it was the first live ping, this indicates the beacon was unable to transmit (for whatever reason) after approximately two to three minutes.

FWIW, the first transmission occurs within milliseconds after switch on but this transmission is not "live" in so far as it's coding goes. The first "live" ping occurs about 1 minute later and then they are repeated in approximately one minute intervals.

Of course we don't know the exact situation of how, when or why the first ping was received but however you look at it, it isn't good.

It would be nice to know which beacon was activated as there is possibly more than one beacon on board.

Back to the lifeboat aspect, do any of the commercial shipping folk (F V & El P etc) know if it is usual to have an EPRIB (and/or SARTs) in each lifeboat or only on the ship?
I'm not sure, I never sailed on a SOLAS ship, always domestic Canadian or government vessels.

I'm not even sure El Faro would have been a SOLAS ship. Jacksonville to Puerto Rico might be considered a Near Coastal or domestic route. Never more than 200 miles off shore, trading between US ports. Safety requirements are much much lower on domestic vessels than SOLAS vessels.

I think an American Mariner would know more about this route than me. The all American crew does kind of suggest a domestic route though.

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