Safety and Cruising

[colemj]

San Pedro Sula in Honduras has the highest murder rate in the world (including against foreigners and tourists). So does that mean it is nuts to cruise safe and quiet Guanaja Honduras?

Drawing conclusions about safety based on statistics that average whole countries together and applying it to the "Caribbean" makes no sense at all.

To then draw a hard line between "ostriches" and "safe minded" is silly in the extreme. We are neither of those. We simply keep our eyes and ears open and make rational decisions as we go along. So, for example, we don't go to Venezuela, but love Colombia - two areas the OP's mindset cannot distinguish.

Mark

[rognvald]

The question that has gone unanswered from our Group A respondents is whether they visit areas in the Caribbean and anchor in the ubiquitous shopping mall anchorages among the sizeable herd of fellow cruisers where the myth of safety among the group is assumed or whether they seek remote or isolated anchorages away from others where they are truly on their own without the comfort and the implied safety in numbers. There is definitely a different mindset between the two and certainly a different level of safety, real or imagined, that is experienced by those cruising. How many of you, honestly, have spent time in isolated anchorages far from other cruisers and completely alone? And, how many of you would feel the same about safety when far from the herd? Most prefer the companionship of the herd and for many--that is one of the main reasons they enjoy cruising. Where do you normally anchor in the Caribbean Group A? Based upon the cruising grounds in question, this might be a rhetorical question.

[sec906]

Originally Posted by rognvald

... myth of safety ...

Maybe it's really a myth of danger?

[zeehag]

even here in west coast there are some dangers. if you go out expecting danger and looking dirty no one approaches you.
if you anchor in a beautiful isolated spot and are shiny and bright enough to attract rats, you will find em.
it doesnt always pày to advertise.

[colemj]

Like I said, we don't fit either of your categories. You defining these categories and then demanding that people answer how they behave in their category is like asking everyone if they have stopped beating their wife yet. The question has false pretense.

For example, the Bahamas are pretty much completely "safe" from all you fear (stay out of Nassau). Yet the vast majority of cruisers there congregate in only a couple of places and rarely move. So if one moved over a couple of bays and stayed by themselves, are they type A or type B in your world?

Another example, Cartagena only has one large harbor. If one visits Cartagena and stays in this harbor with the herd of other cruisers, are they type A or type B in your world?

We actively seek out solitude and less explored places and spend many months in such. We often find ourselves in crowded areas too. We are neither cavalier about safety, nor are we paralyzed with fear.

My suggestion to you is to stay out of the Caribe completely. It isn't for you anymore, because you fear it and are paralyzed by unexamined and unparsed data.

Mark

[boatman61]

He can't do that.. he's a Viking..

[goboatingnow]

You do wonder why a certain group of people almost want to be convinced or already are, that the world is going down the tubes, so to speak. I mean what do they see as the logical end consequence of that view.

I find it difficult and almost funny to read such views

dave

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

I find it difficult and almost funny to read such views

dave

I don't find them funny at all, mostly sad.

[44'cruisingcat]

Can't see the point of this thread either. Is he trying to convince others that what they're doing is unacceptably dangerous?

We all decide what risks we're willing to take. Some will skydive, some won't. If going cruising seems too dangerous to the OP, then simply don't.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

You do wonder why a certain group of people almost want to be convinced or already are, that the world is going down the tubes, so to speak. I mean what do they see as the logical end consequence of that view.

I find it difficult and almost funny to read such views

dave

NCIS.. Miami Vice.. Oh Goody.. Lets watch crime and murder horror Movies and TV...
Then wonder why you jump at shadows..

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by boatman61

NCIS.. Miami Vice.. Oh Goody.. Lets watch crime and murder horror Movies and TV...
Then wonder why you jump at shadows..

I agree,

I was watching Criminal Minds recently and turned to the wife, and said no wonder all these Americans are frightened of everything, All these shows are about serial murders, bizarre crimes etc. No wonder the country freaked.

I mean this side, the biggest news is that Bates may have done away with the body ( Downton christmas special) . The staff are in a bit of a tizzy but away pack a picnic and visit the beach. !.

Dave

[boatman61]

The Portuguese are trying hard with their soaps.. guns and kidnappings etc.. but they're so bad its more comedy than scare...Kinda Eastenders on Speed..

[LakeSuperior]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

While this is a thoughtful insight , it is fundamentally flawed. Statistics show that in fact in many countries crime rates are falling , equally some places experience an upswing in crime , especially in economic swings. In general , unlike many , which believe the world is going to a hell in a hand basket , many places where cruisers could not sail are now available to cruisers and equally so e areas are perhaps more difficult.

What is clear is that this inflated sense of fear , seems unjustified as a general view. Attacks on cruisers remain rare that's clear , even looking at the Caribbean Numbers.

Personally I blame 24 hour news media, events are hyped , situations are over emphasised and so much news" gets off" on generating fear. This is then added to by governments who trade on fear to implement policy change.

My perceptions are that this " state" is heightened for Americans, who nostalgically view the past through a " apple pie " lenses. Maybe you grew up with the back door unlocked and now see " crime" everywhere. I do think this is unfortunate. But the evidence is we are not in an increasingly violent society.

My view is that sensible precautions are always necessary and one must always keep the personal radar running. But generally, short of inserting yourself into a violent area , your chances of being the victim of anymore then trivial crime is very slim indeed

Dave

Like many CF threads we get little substance and lots of opinion in the posts.

It would be great to see some of these opinions supported with data. Like, how many cruisers are in the Caribbean per year or at any one time and how many murders, assaults, robberies per cruiser per year.

Else, we are just making stuff up and it opens the door for making more stuff up.

We have a perceived risk as a function of media, opinions, etc. and then, there is the real risk, the numbers.

If there are 1000 yachts per year in one harbor and there is one incident per year then I would submit the risk is very very high. Because there are relatively few cruisers compared to say, the population of the US. The denominator is small. Consequently, one crime against a cruiser is potentially a big deal. Where in the US we can think in terms of crimes per second and still have a low crime rate.

What are the Caribbean numbers?? How are they changing temporally and geographically? We really need some meat here otherwise it is just empty opinions/perceived risk.

[goboatingnow]

you did see my analysis of 6 months of the CarribeanSafetyNet figures, Which document crimes specifically cruisers. I mean it adds to virtually nothing, especially if you discount O/B and Dinghy theft. ( which is almost always lack of care)

Dave

[LakeSuperior]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

you did see my analysis of 6 months of the CarribeanSafetyNet figures, Which document crimes specifically cruisers. I mean it adds to virtually nothing, especially if you discount O/B and Dinghy theft. ( which is almost always lack of care)

Dave

No denominator provided in your analysis. For a small denominator one incident is significant.

I also would seriously question the completeness of incident documentation. That said, it's are better than making it up.