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Old 05-12-2014, 16:50   #31
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Re: Risks of CO2 on Board

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
Yes, it is well known that this is the very means used by the aliens from Bftsplk to subdue good Americans when abducting them for their evil purposes. Of course, I don't know if these deaths would appear in establishment statistical records.

As to a COtwo monitor... perhaps a canary as used in the coal mines??

Seriously, it is pretty hard for me to believe that this potential hazard is very threatening to Dockies well being. But, if he, or anyone does feel threatened, it is pretty easy to just not buy the bloody soda machine, and continue to use pre-carbonated drinks. Ohhh, but what if all 96 tins of Tonic water should leak and let their contained COtwo out into the hull? Has anyone calculated the concentration resulting from that?

We're having a lot of thunderstorms here these days, and I'm using up my worry quotient on lightning strikes!

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LOL.

Well, I'm tending to think that the risk is manageable, but I will maintain a healthy respect for it, and really won't keep a large tank or a stock of cylinders inside the boat.

And I would not use CO2 fire extinguishers on board when there are decent alternatives.

I'm thinking that it's somewhat like the case of propane, which we all use. Use it it in good health, but have a healthy respect for it. The main thing is that in both cases -- it's different on a boat, than on land.
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Old 05-12-2014, 16:59   #32
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Re: Risks of CO2 on Board

Quote:
I'm thinking that it's somewhat like the case of propane, which we all use. Use it it in good health, but have a healthy respect for it. The main thing is that in both cases -- it's different on a boat, than on land.
Can't argue with that, mate. Fizz in good health and safety!

Jim
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Old 05-12-2014, 17:23   #33
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Re: Risks of CO2 on Board

I am very glad to be informed of this threat to my health from CO2. I have two large tanks of it and a couple large CO2 fire extinguishers also. I use it in my wire welder and had no Idea that it was dangerous to my health. I also have used it numerous times to fill tanks that I am going to weld or to backfill containers made of stainless to keep them from forming sugaring on the inside of welds.

I also use it to preserve stored grain or rolled oats. I will sure not take any chances with it unless I want out quick. I do think the little cartridges that come in regular soda water dispensers are probably the way to go for tonic water. Mac
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Old 05-12-2014, 19:46   #34
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Re: Risks of CO2 on Board

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Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
I wouldn't be so sarcastic.
I can't help myself! Have you read your posts? You are freaking out about being killed by a freaking soda machine! Really - sarcasm is all I have left once I stop laughing my ass off.

Come on - take a deep breathe (CO2-free, please) and go check all of your hose clamps. I'm sure CO2 will no longer scare you after that…

OK, I will try to be serious: REALLY??? YOU ARE WORRIED ABOUT A SODA MACHINE KILLING YOU???

oops, too soon I guess…

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Old 05-12-2014, 19:51   #35
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Re: Risks of CO2 on Board

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surely dozens of people die every year from CO2 asphyxiation.
More die from toilet injuries (actual statistics, not a guess). You haven't answered my question about if you have removed your head from your boat.

Heck, are you even worried about your toilet?

You should be.

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Old 05-12-2014, 20:22   #36
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Re: Risks of CO2 on Board

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Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
It's the other way around.

CO kills you relatively slowly.

CO2 kills instantly.

...

At just 14% concentration (half of what you try to achieve when fighting fires with CO2), it kills 50% of people in less than one minute. Faster than a cyanide tablet.

...

This property of CO2 is used for slaughtering chickens or killing laboratory mice. A popular method of killing moles is to pump CO2 into their burrows.

A CO2 release in a boat -- where it has no place to go, unlike in a building on land -- is a bit like CO2 pumped into a mole's burrow.
Both can kill you quickly in the right concentrations, but potentially fatal concentration levels for CO are dramatically lower. At concentrations of only 12,800 PPM CO is potentially fatal in 1-3 minutes.

http://inspectapedia.com/hazmat/Carb...ure_Limits.htm

Something to think about next time your inspecting your exhaust system.

CO is actively toxic in that it bonds with the oxygen in your bloodstream. CO2 is not actively toxic, it just displaces the oxygen you need.

As you've calculated already, your gonna need a lot more volume than a soda stream cartridge or two fully discharging to be a realistic safety hazard.
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Old 05-12-2014, 20:39   #37
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Re: Risks of CO2 on Board

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CO is actively toxic in that it bonds with the oxygen in your bloodstream. CO2 is not actively toxic, it just displaces the oxygen you need.
CO almost irreversibly binds with the hemoglobin in blood, displacing the oxygen and making it difficult for oxygen to bind again. Once removed from a CO atmosphere, a person is still in deep doo-doo no matter how much oxygen they receive.

CO2 is simply not oxygen. If one was face down in a N2 atmosphere, they would also die. Same with a He atmosphere (I can go on with gases, but the point is they are not normal air containing oxygen). There are also receptors in the circulatory system that sense CO2 levels and cause physiological reactions (not necessarily good ones!). However, once one is removed from the CO2, and/or given oxygen, all the bad stuff goes away and one walks on as if nothing ever happened.

Just expanding on your statement...

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Old 05-12-2014, 21:27   #38
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Re: Risks of CO2 on Board

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Originally Posted by belizesailor View Post
Both can kill you quickly in the right concentrations, but potentially fatal concentration levels for CO are dramatically lower. At concentrations of only 12,800 PPM CO is potentially fatal in 1-3 minutes.
Just for a little perspective. Every breathe you breath out has about 40-50,000 PPM CO2.
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Old 06-12-2014, 06:25   #39
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Re: Risks of CO2 on Board

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Just for a little perspective. Every breathe you breath out has about 40-50,000 PPM CO2.
Good god, my body is killing me! And let's not even go to the other end, where 30% of what is released there is CO2.

Dockhead could kill himself by eating a can of beans and falling asleep with the covers over his head!!!!!!

And then there is that whole hydrogen sulfide bit - that stuff is far more dangerous than CO2 or even CO.

Not to mention methane - which could cause a major fire onboard. Better keep a CO2 fire extinguisher around for that one.

Oh, wait….

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Old 06-12-2014, 08:04   #40
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Re: Risks of CO2 on Board

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Originally Posted by colemj View Post
Good god, my body is killing me! And let's not even go to the other end, where 30% of what is released there is CO2.

Dockhead could kill himself by eating a can of beans and falling asleep with the covers over his head!!!!!!

And then there is that whole hydrogen sulfide bit - that stuff is far more dangerous than CO2 or even CO.

Not to mention methane - which could cause a major fire onboard. Better keep a CO2 fire extinguisher around for that one.

Oh, wait….

Mark
Sure, take a plastic bag, and put it over your head, just for fun. CO2 is no big deal, right? . . . Why you breath it out yourself -- what could possibly go wrong? 25 people die in the U.S. every year that way, by the way.

For the medically minded -- CO2 is not just the absence of oxygen. It displaces oxygen in hemoglobin through the "Bohr Effect". It is true that it takes a much greater concentration to kill than CO, but with enough concentration, it kills almost instantly, faster than CO. Discharge a CO2 fire extinguisher on board -- on a boat, where the gas can't escape downward -- lie on the cabin sole for a minute, and you're dead. Faster than a cyanide pill, which takes about 3 minutes. I don't think that's quite a laughing matter, myself.

What's worse about it is that unlike CO, which is similar in density to air and disperses in it, CO2 is heavy and settles in a space like a boat hull. The alarming thing about it is that it, because of this, it behaves differently in a boat, than it does on land -- just like propane, or gasoline vapors.

Laugh all you like. A minimally intelligent person will think about the consequences before taking such gasses on board.
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Old 06-12-2014, 08:30   #41
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Re: Risks of CO2 on Board

I don't think the amount you're talking about will be a problem but you're smart to look into it. I remember a terrible accident where two men were killed by CO2. They were working in the engine room of a large yacht when the CO2 Fire system went off. They didn't make it to the door.
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Old 06-12-2014, 08:43   #42
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Re: Risks of CO2 on Board

Co2 is not simply a lack of O2, look it up, what drives the desire to breahte, a lack of O2?


Why do you seem to insist that a high concentration of CO2 isn't deadly when there is ample scientific evidence to the contrary?
Trick of course is just like all deadly gases, avoid it, don't bring enough CO2 into the boat to kill you and there will be no problem, simple.

I'm sure it wouldn't be that hard if you really wanted it inside the boat to put it in a sort of airtight container with a hose connected to overboard, sure some might leak in, but surely not enough to get to a deadly concentration?

Everything has risk, my cell phone and or Ipad could catch fire from the battery, but I believe the risk is outweighed by the advantage of having them,
Dockhead needs to decide if the advantage of having a soda machine outweighs the risk, however small or large the risk may be.

BTW, I don't put my cell phone and Ipad in a pyrex dish like I should if I were a truly paranoid person when I sleep
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Old 06-12-2014, 09:06   #43
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Re: Risks of CO2 on Board

I think that some of the comments mistook CO2 for CO which is really dangerous as opposed to CO2 that is dangerous only in high concentration and non ventilated space.
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Old 06-12-2014, 09:40   #44
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Re: Risks of CO2 on Board

As a testament to my concern over this issue, I offer to pay the shipping for all of the denizens who have Sodastream units and gas cartridges that they wish to dispose of in an environmentally safe manner. Oh, and if you hand deliver, I will personally prepare enough G&Ts for your pleasure to recompense your bother. When I bought my original unit, I purchased every available gas cartridge available in the store. That's nine. Lasts me for at least a year, drinking a couple G&Ts, minimum, per day. I refill them for free (well, for the cost of a pint of great IPA), using a manifold I purchased on the Internet several years ago. The biggest challenge is having to turn the CO2 bottle upside down to dispense the liquid CO2 into the smaller cartridges.
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Old 06-12-2014, 10:02   #45
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Re: Risks of CO2 on Board

WE have co2 monitor; stick on type that would be in a north american basement, in our boat. It made us aware that after running the engine for a few hours it would go off in the aft cabin; where the engine was. Likely not a huge amount with the airflow in a boat
but likely the cause of our headaches if someone slept there while motoring. We run low volt fans in there now.

The monitors are so cheap; just get several if you think moisture may get to them.
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