Risks of CO2 on Board

[David M]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

No, you will not

Do you have proof? It sure did a number on my sinuses.

[a64pilot]

Quite a few deaths on re-breathers, where if the diver had detected C02, all they would have had to do to keep from dieing is bail out, that is breath off of the cylinders of regular compressed breathing gas they carry for just such an emergency.

I believe C0 and C02 are both colorless, odorless gases that are un-detectable. Maybe fire extinguishers add something to the gas, like is done with natural gas? Just guessing here.

[David M]

Carbon Monoxide is odorless and colorless indeed, but Carbon Dioxide? In my experience you can definitely feel it. I'm sure you have cracked open a can of soda, taken a big sniff and had it affect your sinuses.

[denverd0n]

Originally Posted by David M

Do you have proof? It sure did a number on my sinuses.

Of course it did. You were breathing in a very high concentration. Naturally you can detect it in conditions like that. But it can still kill you at far, far lower concentrations. Concentrations that are far below the ability of your nose to detect.

[chris95040]

Important correction! Earlier I suggested CO2 in your bilge would probably readily mix out when you climbed into it because its "so lightweight".

Wrong! CO2 is actually a little heavier than what I consider a "heavy" gas, Argon. So it _will_ collect in your bilge, and possibly _will not_ readily mix out.

I guess I was confusing it with Nitrogen.

(Background- CO2, Nitrogen, and Argon are all inert gases you can use to keep oxygen away from wine you are storing. Nitrogen is not used unless you have a pressurized container otherwise it will just float away since it's so lightweight, CO2 is not used much because it can cause carbonation even if it's not under pressure, Argon is great because its nice and heavy, readily pools into a "blanket" on the surface of the wine, and wont cause carbonation. FWIW, getting a nice blanket is still a bitch even with a heavy gas, you really need to work at preventing mixing with the surrounding air, so this doesn't change my final answer.)

[colemj]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Not a joke! CO2 is really quite dangerous.

OH MY GOD!!!!! I GOTTA GET RID OF SEVERAL OF MY FIRE EXTINGUISHERS!!!!!

Excuse the shouting, but I'm so scared now I just pee'd myself and I hit my head running around in circles.

Gotta go and toss those dangerous things now so I can get back to a perfectly safe boat and boating lifestyle… There should be a law!!!

Seriously, though, you will find more harm in that gin than you will with a CO2 tank. Maybe you will google for statistics for how many people in buildings or other similar enclosed spaces die from CO2 each year (I don't want to hear about people looking into a volcano). I bet soda harms more people each year than CO2.

The odds are 1:10,000 you will be injured by your toilet this year. You have removed your toilet, haven't you. Dangerous things those. More boats have been sunk by toilets than by torpedoes. I bet more people have died on toilets than by CO2. Elvis did.

Mark

[chris95040]

Originally Posted by colemj

OH MY GOD!!!!! I GOTTA GET RID OF SEVERAL OF MY FIRE EXTINGUISHERS!!!!!

Excuse the shouting, but I'm so scared now I just pee'd myself and I hit my head running around in circles.

Gotta go and toss those dangerous things now so I can get back to a perfectly safe boat and boating lifestyle… There should be a law!!!

Seriously, though, you will find more harm in that gin than you will with a CO2 tank. Maybe you will google for statistics for how many people in buildings or other similar enclosed spaces die from CO2 each year (I don't want to hear about people looking into a volcano). I bet soda harms more people each year than CO2.

The odds are 1:10,000 you will be injured by your toilet this year. You have removed your toilet, haven't you. Dangerous things those. More boats have been sunk by toilets than by torpedoes. I bet more people have died on toilets than by CO2. Elvis did.

Mark

I dunno, I think it's smart to try and quantify, or at least better understand, a potential hazard.

And I think its far less likely a piece of safety equipment, like a fire extinguisher, would suddenly blow a valve, than some mass-produced piece of junk co2 cartridge. The fire extinguisher manufacturer can afford to put a halfway decent valve in there. The 99 cent co2 cartridge, not so much.

[Thin Line]

I almost can't tell if half the posts in this thread are a joke.. Are you people serious? First of all half of you are posting and obviously don't know the difference between CO and CO2.. You could load your boat full of Sodastream cans and in your wildest dreams aren't going to die from what you are breathing out right this very moment! OH NOES!

Carbon Monoxide will kill you in a hot second but CO2? Come on guys.

Comparing storing canisters on your boat to breathing in a closed system underwater? Wow.. /facepalm

<<< Firefighter, Hazmat Specialist, Critical Care Paramedic. Not just some guy with a boat typing on a keyboard.

[colemj]

Originally Posted by chris95040

I dunno, I think it's smart to try and quantify, or at least better understand, a potential hazard.

And I think its far less likely a piece of safety equipment, like a fire extinguisher, would suddenly blow a valve, than some mass-produced piece of junk co2 cartridge. The fire extinguisher manufacturer can afford to put a halfway decent valve in there. The 99 cent co2 cartridge, not so much.

I just quantified toilet injuries - are you tossing your head?

If there was any reasonable probability that those CO2 cartridges would pop, the company would be out of business by now. A quick google and I can't find a single incident of this happening.

BTW, those suckers are not 99 cents - they cost $30 for a small cylinder.

I think this is all chicken little. If you want to try and quantify and understand a potential hazard on a boat, you could probably quickly make up a list of 10 things on your boat you haven't even thought of before that are far more probable and dangerous than being killed by CO2 from your soda maker.

I bet you have a bad hose clamp on your boat right now...

Mark

[colemj]

Originally Posted by Thin Line

I almost can't tell if half the posts in this thread are a joke.. Are you people serious? First of all half of you are posting and obviously don't know the difference between CO and CO2.. You could load your boat full of Sodastream cans and in your wildest dreams aren't going to die from what you are breathing out right this very moment! OH NOES!

Carbon Monoxide will kill you in a hot second but CO2? Come on guys.

Comparing storing canisters on your boat to breathing in a closed system underwater? Wow.. /facepalm

<<< Firefighter, Hazmat Specialist, Critical Care Paramedic. Not just some guy with a boat typing on a keyboard.

First thing to learn on CF is to not get between irrationality and reality…

Mark

[Thin Line]

Originally Posted by colemj

First thing to learn on CF is to not get between irrationality and reality…

Mark

Dually noted

[Cottontop]

A link to an interesting report from the US EPA on the safety of CO2 fire extinguishers:

Carbon Dioxide as a Fire Suppressant: Examining the Risks | Alternatives / SNAP | US EPA

A couple of quotes from the report:

"At concentrations greater than 17 percent, such as those encountered during carbon dioxide fire suppressant use, loss of controlled and purposeful activity, unconsciousness, convulsions, coma, and death occur within 1 minute of initial inhalation of carbon dioxide (OSHA 1989, CCOHS 1990, Dalgaard et al. 1972 . . .).

"At the minimum design concentration (34 percent) for its use as a total flooding fire suppressant, carbon dioxide is lethal."

CO2 is present in the atmosphere at much less than 1%. There is a lot of online information on the physiological effects of breathing high concentrations of CO2.

I don't believe EPA is confusing CO and CO2.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by colemj

OH MY GOD!!!!! I GOTTA GET RID OF SEVERAL OF MY FIRE EXTINGUISHERS!!!!!

Excuse the shouting, but I'm so scared now I just pee'd myself and I hit my head running around in circles.

Gotta go and toss those dangerous things now so I can get back to a perfectly safe boat and boating lifestyle… There should be a law!!!

Seriously, though, you will find more harm in that gin than you will with a CO2 tank. Maybe you will google for statistics for how many people in buildings or other similar enclosed spaces die from CO2 each year (I don't want to hear about people looking into a volcano). I bet soda harms more people each year than CO2.

The odds are 1:10,000 you will be injured by your toilet this year. You have removed your toilet, haven't you. Dangerous things those. More boats have been sunk by toilets than by torpedoes. I bet more people have died on toilets than by CO2. Elvis did.

Mark

I wouldn't be so sarcastic. On land, it's much less dangerous because, just like the case with propane, the gas will get out and dissipate. Propane is not that dangerous on land, but we all know how dangerous it is in a boat.

Above a certain concentration, it kills almost instantly. Discharge a CO2 fire extinguisher on board and then trip and fall on the cabin sole and I wonder what will happen to you. At 15% concentration, 50% of people die within one minute. http://www.hse.gov.uk/carboncapture/...on-dioxide.pdf

I'm sure someone could Google up some statistics, but surely dozens of people die every year from CO2 asphyxiation.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Thin Line

Carbon Monoxide will kill you in a hot second but CO2? Come on guys.

It's the other way around.

CO kills you relatively slowly.

CO2 kills instantly.



At just 14% concentration (half of what you try to achieve when fighting fires with CO2), it kills 50% of people in less than one minute. Faster than a cyanide tablet.

See: http://www.hse.gov.uk/carboncapture/...on-dioxide.pdf

This property of CO2 is used for slaughtering chickens or killing laboratory mice. A popular method of killing moles is to pump CO2 into their burrows.

A CO2 release in a boat -- where it has no place to go, unlike in a building on land -- is a bit like CO2 pumped into a mole's burrow.

[Jim Cate]

but surely dozens of people die every year from CO2 asphyxiation.

Yes, it is well known that this is the very means used by the aliens from Bftsplk to subdue good Americans when abducting them for their evil purposes. Of course, I don't know if these deaths would appear in establishment statistical records.

As to a COtwo monitor... perhaps a canary as used in the coal mines??

Seriously, it is pretty hard for me to believe that this potential hazard is very threatening to Dockies well being. But, if he, or anyone does feel threatened, it is pretty easy to just not buy the bloody soda machine, and continue to use pre-carbonated drinks. Ohhh, but what if all 96 tins of Tonic water should leak and let their contained COtwo out into the hull? Has anyone calculated the concentration resulting from that?

We're having a lot of thunderstorms here these days, and I'm using up my worry quotient on lightning strikes!

Jim