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Old 04-03-2011, 07:50   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kettlewell
I can still see certain advantages to using the "party line" on channel 16 in the case of emergencies. Several times I have heard MayDays and discovered that I was quite close to the scene, so while the Coast Guard was playing 40 questions with the folks onboard I put the pedal to the metal and was heading toward the scene in case my help might be required. Other boaters did the same thing and managed to arrive before me, and well before the Coast Guard in at least a couple of cases I can recall. In one case the tugboat was sinking and the crew were trying to tell the CG that they were now getting ready to swim for it and they didn't have time to answer the 40 questions. Other times I have chimed in when I could with useful information, like when the CG couldn't understand garbled transmissions from the boat but for some reason I could hear the person crystal clear. Or I have provided on scene weather and wind conditions, etc. It is not clear to me how I as a peripheral cog in the rescue would know to provide this information if everything wasn't being transmitted in the open on channel 16.
This isn't a one or the other discussion that one is right the other wrong and only use the right one to the exclusion of the other, USE BOTH! What is it going to hurt? When I used the DISTRESS for the plane crash you better believe the very next thing was voice on channel 16.

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Mark
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Old 04-03-2011, 07:53   #92
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Re: Resistance to DSC VHF

There might be a time when someone does not want to receive an DSC hail.

I can certainly understand why someone might not like their radio making decisions about answering calls....
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Old 04-03-2011, 08:06   #93
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Originally Posted by s/v 'Faith'
There might be a time when someone does not want to receive an DSC hail.

I can certainly understand why someone might not like their radio making decisions about answering calls....
Please do go on.

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Mark
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Old 04-03-2011, 08:14   #94
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Re: Resistance to DSC VHF

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Originally Posted by SV Enough View Post
Please do go on.

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Mark
Just trying to figure out an answer to the OP.

What do you think?
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Old 04-03-2011, 08:26   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s/v 'Faith'

Just trying to figure out an answer to the OP.

What do you think?
I'm keeping an open mind on this one. :-)

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Mark
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Old 04-03-2011, 08:49   #96
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Re: Resistance to DSC VHF

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Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
quite frankly part of the problem in the US is lack of understanding of the whole GMDSS and where DSC fits into that picture. It's one of the reasons for example in Europe the VHF license requires an exam.

DSC Distress alerting should always be followed by a voice call wherever possible it should really never be used on it's own. Hence a Distress Alert should be followed by a conventional MAYdAY, an urgency alert by a PAN PAN etc.

Under GMDSS the distress alert is designed to alert the designated shire station FIRST. The primarily control of rescue has moved under GMDSS to the coordination MRCC not to ships in the vicinity ( under SOLAS). DSC is primarily designed to do that .

Ps class d VHF maybe new to the USA because only recently the USA joined the rest of the world in accepting class D over it's own SC101 protocol which was never allowed outside the US. The rest of us had class D only sets from the start of DSC ( well over 15 years now) no class D set should have a distress acknowledge function. This is a feature reserved for class A sets

Also the mere fact of applying fir the FCC MMSI triggers an update to the ITU database and means your boat call sign and MMSI are printed into the big ITU directory telephone style books that ships have to carry.
I never understood why the US implemented the non standard boat/us mmsi thing.

Dave
When I got my station license I did not have a DSC radio, but the FCC gave me an MMSI number. Apparently I need to send them another form, it might be 605 B, to update my information. I believe that is when my info will be sent to the ITU database, it isn't there now.

IIRC there's a USCG database, and a way to query it and it had wrong info about me for the same reason.

John
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Old 04-03-2011, 09:07   #97
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Re: Resistance to DSC VHF

"There might be a time when someone does not want to receive an DSC hail."

I realize that different radios will have different options available, at least I've found this to be true between my old Icom DSC and the new Standard Horizon. Taking another look at the SH manual it gives instructions to limit the number of rings on incoming DSC calls, or even turn them off completely, should you wish to do so.

Mark - This is a great discussion. Besides the new information from you and others, it's inspired me to go back and re-read the manual and all of it's many, many instructions and options. One tends to read and go through everything in the owners manual when you first install it but, after only using the basic functions for a time, you tend to forget many of the less used functions.

Thanks - Greg
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Old 04-03-2011, 09:37   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cal40john

When I got my station license I did not have a DSC radio, but the FCC gave me an MMSI number. Apparently I need to send them another form, it might be 605 B, to update my information. I believe that is when my info will be sent to the ITU database, it isn't there now.

IIRC there's a USCG database, and a way to query it and it had wrong info about me for the same reason.

John
IIRC has several meanings, some are contradictory. Here is the CG PSIX web site. Do to privacy concern this public site is redacted to fairly innocuous information.

http://cgmix.uscg.mil/PSIX/PSIXSearch.aspx

NOAA has a web site with a little more information available.

http://www.st.nmfs.noaa.gov/st1/CoastGuard/index.html

If anyone finds out what entries in and FCC license application triggers the ITU flush through please share.

As a head up to others, do not treat the FCC station license application as an inventory checking off only what you have aboard or what your sailing habit/intentions are. Make like you a globe trotter extraordinary and have all the equipment money can buy. That way you will avoid what John is going through.

The FCC doesn't care what you actually have or do not have aboard and will not check, neither will anyone else. The fee is the same if all you apply for is a VHF station license or make like a globe trotter extraordinary and have all the equipment money can buy aboard.

Your friend,
Mark
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Old 04-03-2011, 09:41   #99
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Re: Resistance to DSC VHF

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg S View Post
......

Mark - This is a great discussion. Besides the new information from you and others, it's inspired me to go back and re-read the manual and all of it's many, many instructions and options. One tends to read and go through everything in the owners manual when you first install it but, after only using the basic functions for a time, you tend to forget many of the less used functions.

Thanks - Greg
Absolutely right!

And, once you've studied and internalized the VHF instructions, you can move on to HF/DSC. The Icom M-802 manual contains 31 pages on DSC setup and operation!

That's right: thirty-one pages.

Pay attention, because there'll be a test soon (which could include you standing in water up to your knees).

:-)

Bill
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Old 04-03-2011, 09:47   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg S
"There might be a time when someone does not want to receive an DSC hail."

I realize that different radios will have different options available, at least I've found this to be true between my old Icom DSC and the new Standard Horizon. Taking another look at the SH manual it gives instructions to limit the number of rings on incoming DSC calls, or even turn them off completely, should you wish to do so.

Mark - This is a great discussion. Besides the new information from you and others, it's inspired me to go back and re-read the manual and all of it's many, many instructions and options. One tends to read and go through everything in the owners manual when you first install it but, after only using the basic functions for a time, you tend to forget many of the less used functions.

Thanks - Greg
Some of what you are seeing are differences between the old cheaper SC-101 DSC spec used in the US awhile back, it is a stripped out version of the class D spec. SC-101 I think is no longer available in the US having been replaced by class D which the rest of the world uses. Later this month an updated class D which includes a "test" feature will become all you can buy in the US.

Your friend,
Mark
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Old 04-03-2011, 12:58   #101
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Re: Resistance to DSC VHF

Hi Rebel Heart.

I am new in this forum and became aware of this discusion and want to give my view on the matter as a professional technician having installed 50+ VHF-DSC and HF/MF SSB with DSC.
And your are absolutely right!!!!!!!!!!!!
It was made because the developing ingeneers are able to do it!!!! Every time they see a new component and find-out what it can do, they will go in automatic-mode and incorporate it in their equipment to be presented to authorities and politicians, who will clap their hands. YES, - new hardware means new jobs and more profit. They just forget the exstra polution all way round from mining to scrapping etc. And do we need it. probably not!!! I have not yet seen a official paper or news stating, that DSC has prevented an accident from happening. Together with the GMDSS-regulative from late 1990īs it has in some cases been able to tell the story, ie. where the ship disappearred etc. DSC is much too difficult and time-consuming to be part of a workday on the bridge of a merchant vessel. They try hard enough to keep awake!!! And on a small boat in rough sea?? Forget it. And how to call a meeting vessel, which identity is unknown to you. Not untill it will be mandatory for all boats, regardless of size to carry a class A AIS.

Sorry to say it, but I am ashame, that I have been forced to dismantel a lot of fully operational radio-equipment and store it on the bottom of highseas. Sorry world, but if I didīnt, someone else would. Politicians made the rules.

Some good though. The EPIRB saves some life, - world wide. And AIS is good, because it enables you to identify a vessel.

Wanted instead of new hardware: EDUCATION and some more non-profit thinking.

This is my subjective opinion and not nescessarry the complete truth. Not much is just black & white.

Regards
Claes
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Old 04-03-2011, 13:49   #102
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Re: Resistance to DSC VHF

The problem with DSC is the implementation isn't complete -- they forgot to make it user-friendly.

First -- people are good with names but most are lousy with number addresses. We have a DNS system on the Internet just to deal with this -- could you imagine typing in IP numbers instead of Crusiersforum.com or Google.com, every time you wanted to go to a web site?

Second -- Most DSC radios don't have a numeric keypad. It's ridiculous to expect people to step 3 layers into a menu to select a number with a rotary dial then push it, then rotary-select and push again, etc. Cell phone providers figured this out already by providing full alpha-numeric keypads because texting is now SOP. The hardware and its software is still in the dark ages. We'll look back and laugh that is was even sold this way, ever!

Third -- caller ID from regular calls. We should be able to see (on our own display) the caller ID of anyone broadcasting with a DSC radio and select it for our phone book. You should be able to scroll the history too. Again, to complete the functionality there needs to be a simple interface with dedicated keys and/or menu structure that's easy and intuitive without going deep into rotary-push menus.
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Old 04-03-2011, 13:56   #103
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Re: Resistance to DSC VHF

So true! It is crazy in this day and age that any piece of electronics should require the user to study a 30-page manual before they can use it. That's a recipe for disaster in the case of an emergency. Unfortunately, most marine electronics gear is non-user-friendly.
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Old 04-03-2011, 14:35   #104
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I have NO reservations with your comments or ideas. I also would also like to see simplification, keypads, and speed dialing with MMSI capture.

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Old 04-03-2011, 15:02   #105
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Re: Resistance to DSC VHF

Charles,

This is an interesting statement... can you elaborate?


Quote:
Originally Posted by blueshackle View Post
.....Sorry to say it, but I am ashame, that I have been forced to dismantel a lot of fully operational radio-equipment and store it on the bottom of highseas. Sorry world, but if I didīnt, someone else would. Politicians made the rules.....
All I can think this might refer to would be 121.5mhz ELB's, or maybe someone who had you remove a radio they did not care to get a license for*?>>>??


*even this would seem awfully silly... better to keep it for an emergency, when you would not care if you had a license or not...
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