Quick release VS hard tie in of tether to PFD

[Suijin]

Quick release, hands down. Because when something happens that requires you to disconnect from your tether, speed is usually of the essence. A Gibb hook is not quick release, and a locking carabiner is not either.

I've had to use the quick release on a number of occasions and have been very thankful to have had it given the circumstances. I've also never had it trip unexpectedly because it got caught on something. Only put a short pull tie on it; if it has plastic balls on it, cut them off and replace with a short pull tie.

[davil]

what quick release do you use?
thanks

[Trekker]

Davil,

Old age is not creeping up on me, it's gaining by leaps and bounds. In my last post I wrote Georgetown instead of St. George, but there are several Georgetowns I've sailed to so please forgive the mixup.

Where in N.C. are you? I lived in Oriental and built a marine business there while the town developed into a sailing center and a favorite ICW stop. Had a hand in several other nearby sailing businesses and delivered boats along the Atlantic coast and Bahamas for 30+ years, completing something over 200 delivery contracts in that time. Sold all business interests in early 2000's but still keep my favorite boat there. Moved to Washington (State) three years ago to be near daughter and her family. Advancing maturity, cold water, big cities, aren't for me but loved ones are.

If you want to continue this sort of chat we need to move off this great site...

Andy

[Suijin]

Originally Posted by davil

what quick release do you use?
thanks

I use a Wichard double tether with the pictured quick release:

[Suijin]

Originally Posted by thinwater

This isn't about skimping. World sailing is quite prescriptive on many things, but they are silent on this issue. And that is interesting. I'm surprised they do not require some manner of release, even if not quick release.

From US Sailing's current (2017) SER:

3.1.4 Safety Equipment: Personal

Each crewmember shall have a safety harness and compatible safety tether not more than 6'7" (2m) long with a minimum tensile strength of 4500 Ib. (20kN). The tether shall have a snap hook at its far end and a means to quickly disconnect the tether at the chest end.

Interestingly it is referenced as reflecting World Sailing's OSR, but does not.

IIRC this has been the rule for a few years now although I don't know when the disconnect language was added. Also this is for offshore racing.

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by Suijin

Quick release, hands down. Because when something happens that requires you to disconnect from your tether, speed is usually of the essence. A Gibb hook is not quick release, and a locking carabiner is not either.

I've had to use the quick release on a number of occasions and have been very thankful to have had it given the circumstances. I've also never had it trip unexpectedly because it got caught on something. Only put a short pull tie on it; if it has plastic balls on it, cut them off and replace with a short pull tie.

Maybe. I heard of a guy once that was winched up in a bosuns chair using a snap shackle. The lanyard got into the head block, opened the shackle, and he decked out. We accept that using a snap shackle with a bosons chair is stupid, meaning release is possible. I've had spin shackles open that I would have sworn were locked. I've heard tales of tethers coming off while fighting with a sail below decks. I've heard tales of them popping open from leaning against a stay and snagging the lanyard.

Offer a quick release to a rock climber and he will leave you and never climb with you again, ever.

A Kong Tango is damn close to quick release. Grab it and it unlocks. Perhaps I am at ease with carabiners because I have been manipulating them with one hand, often behind my back, for 30 years. I don't need to see it or use two hands any more than I have to watch my pencil to know what it's writing. I'm guessing not all sailors feel this way about biners? I might actually be able to release the Tango under load more easily than a snap shackle, because I would not have to think about it.

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by Suijin

From US Sailing's current (2017) SER:

3.1.4 Safety Equipment: Personal

Each crewmember shall have a safety harness and compatible safety tether not more than 6'7" (2m) long with a minimum tensile strength of 4500 Ib. (20kN). The tether shall have a snap hook at its far end and a means to quickly disconnect the tether at the chest end.

Interestingly it is referenced as reflecting World Sailing's OSR, but does not.

IIRC this has been the rule for a few years now although I don't know when the disconnect language was added. Also this is for offshore racing.

I think you are reading beyond what it actually says. This is something you must NEVER do with a regulation. It did not say, nor imply, for example, that it must be releasable under load. A Kong Tango meets the "quickly releasable" requirement. It didn't even specify that a knife is not sufficient. This is not laziness on the part of the writer, because they did specify "snap hook" on the jackline end. Could have, but did not.

So in truth, it adds no clarity. Too bad.

[StuM]

Originally Posted by Suijin

Quick release, hands down. Because when something happens that requires you to disconnect from your tether, speed is usually of the essence. A Gibb hook is not quick release...

Guess it depends on your definition of "quick"

I can release mine pretty quickly if I need to - and I am confident that it won't release when I don't want it to.

[Paul Elliott]

Originally Posted by StuM

Guess it depends on your definition of "quick"

I can release mine pretty quickly if I need to - and I am confident that it won't release when I don't want it to.

The quick release is supposed to be releasable under a heavy load, such as when you are being towed behind the boat on your overly-long tether. Neither the Gibb, Kong, carabiner, or any other shackle with a prominent "hook" to it will be quickly releasable under load. I do know of people who have been towed to their death after going overboard, so I think a quick-release is important. A quickly-accessible knife may work, but that's not my choice. (I carry a knife on me, but that's not why)

So on my boat we wear our tethers whenever we're more than a few miles offshore, or sooner if the conditions warrant. We use the Wichard "ORC" single or double jacklines with double-action hook (or hooks), and a quick-release snap shackle at the harness. We probably have about 150,000 total crew-miles wearing these or similar tethers, and there have been perhaps six incidents where the quick-release shackle was snagged (usually on a shroud) and it released. Each time this was quickly noticed and reconnected.

So the snap-shackles do occasionally come off when they shouldn't, but I think the statistics are pretty good.

This is for a crewed boat. Obviously there are different considerations if you are single-handing. Mast-climbing is a completely different situation as well.

And for what it's worth, a regular non-locking carabiner can detach itself from a padeye or U-bolt with sickening ease. My first tethers had regular carabiners and after I tested it I immediately replaced them with ones that had locking carabiners.

[davil]

unrelated to release system but on PFD's.
how often do you change unused CO2 cartridges,no external signs of damage or corrosion?
thanks

[Paul Elliott]

Originally Posted by davil

unrelated to release system but on PFD's.
how often do you change unused CO2 cartridges,no external signs of damage or corrosion?
thanks

We use the hydrostatic inflators, so the whole inflator (including CO2 cartridge) gets replaced then the expiration date comes up. When we had the "dissolving bobbin" inflators I would replace the bobbins every two years and at the same time weigh the CO2 cartridges and inspect them for corrosion. The weight measurement tells you if they are still pressurized. I would replace the cartridges if there was any hint of trouble. How often that happens depends on how wet and warm your sailing is, and if the PFDs get put away wet.

It gets annoying (and expensive) to accumulate expired inflators, including the unused spares I carry, but not replacing them isn't a good option. I occasionally test the PFDs in a swimming pool before I replace the old inflators, but I always inflate them with compressed air at the beginning of a season, to make sure they stay inflated for at least 24 hours.

One time at a "safety at sea seminar" I attended an auto-inflate PFD was being demonstrated. The wearer pulled the "Jerk to Inflate" handle, and nothing happened. They disassembled the inflator and discovered that the CO2 cartridge had badly corroded and leaked out. It's easy to become complacent around gear that we virtually never activate.

[Suijin]

Originally Posted by davil

unrelated to release system but on PFD's.
how often do you change unused CO2 cartridges,no external signs of damage or corrosion?
thanks

I change mine before the expiration date. In fact, I jump in the water and let it auto-inflate, as it's a means of testing for leaks as well.

If you don't have an expiration date for whatever reason, I would replace it at least every two or three years. I open mine up and inspect it twice a year. Don't inflate it by the tube as you'll be introducing moisture to the bladder which is bad.

As a note, if you buy cartridges online, make sure you stipulate that you want a FRESH cartridge, particularly if you buy them on sale.. I and others have received cartridges that had less than a year of life left on them.

[Suijin]

Originally Posted by StuM

Guess it depends on your definition of "quick"

I can release mine pretty quickly if I need to - and I am confident that it won't release when I don't want it to.

As you note the OSR is vague; a tether cutting tool probably qualifies. I think the authors of OSRs don't like to be overly specific when there are multiple solutions, and the personal safety regs are evolving pretty quickly (relatively speaking) with the advent of new technologies.

A few years ago I did go over the side at the foredeck during a race and got dragged. Was on a spinnaker run in heavier weather and the boat had started a "death spiral" of broaching and recovering. My foot was caught in the lifeline and I was inverted with my head underwater with 95% of my weight on the tether. I was able to get a handhold (more a like a deathtrap lol) on the lower lifeline wire with one hand and pull the quick release with the other. When the boat oscillated again I was basically washed back up on deck. Between my weight on the tether and one hand to hold on with after disconnecting, I needed a "one handed under full load" solution that the quick release provided. Farting around with a carabiner or a webbing cutting tool was not really an option.

We're all formed by our individual experiences. That one was really formative for me, but obviously people have different ones and make different decisions based on them. To each their own!

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by Paul Elliott

The quick release is supposed to be releasable under a heavy load....

It does NOT say that. In the context of a regulation "supposed to,"like "fair, is a made-up word that means whatever we want it to.

Only the written words count. If they meant "release under load" it would have said that. It was discussed and the wording you see was chosen.

---

I'm not saying there isn't often a good case for release-under-load. I'm just sayin' it is neither universal nor mandated. It just isn't.
l
For example, Suijin's example is completely irrelevant to a catamaran sailor. We end the tethers aft so we can go forward and the bow area is wide; we're working 10' from the lee rail. MOB risk is generally well aft.

[hellosailor]

davil-
There's no need to change unused CO2 cartridges. If they are properly manufactured, the disc is permanently sealed on and it cannot leak.
What you will find on many pressure vessels (including some CO2 bottles/cartridges) is a WEIGHT in grams for the full cylinder. Check that when it is new (a small gram or good postal scale is a whole ten bucks these days) and then from time to time, maybe annually. If the weight of the cylinder has gone done, it has leaked and should be replaced. If the weight hasn't changed, the cylinder is good forever.

I would suggest putting a generous dab of silicon grease on the firing pin and the end of the cylinder as well. That prevents any corrosion and ensures the firing pin will be sharp and easily pierce the disc.