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Old 25-12-2006, 07:47   #1

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Possible Insight Into Why Americans Want to Carry Guns

To all who have trouble fathoming the crazy idea many Americans have about carrying firearms, here is a snippet highlighting some Christmas shopping adventures taking place yesterday. I posted a snippet or 2 below, and put link to the actual article at the bottom for copyright purposes:

Two men were in custody Monday after a shooting at a crowded mall that left one man dead and sent hundreds of Christmas shoppers running for cover, police said.
Elsewhere, two shootings occurred at malls in North Carolina over the weekend.
A man was charged with attempted murder Sunday after a shooting a day earlier at a Greensboro mall packed with shoppers. One man was critically wounded by gunfire at the Four Seasons Town Centre on Saturday.
And one man was slightly wounded at Charlotte's Eastland Mall on Friday evening when an argument between two groups of men ended with one firing through glass entrance doors.

Here's another snippet about trying to purchase a PS3 game console here:

Two armed thugs tried to rob a line of people waiting for the new PlayStation 3 game system to go on sale early Friday and shot one man who refused to give up his money, authorities said.In Sullivan, Ind., a man was in critical condition after emergency surgery for a stab wound after he and a friend tried to rob two men of consoles they waited 36 hours in line to buy, police said.

So, David of Old Jersey was definitely right in his approach to shoot the hecklers from his pedallo. See what kind of crazy stuff we deal with here? This is what happens when you go Christmas shopping. This doesn't even speak to all of the simple assaults. Americans have lost all respect for our fellow citizens and life in general, and THIS is why many of us carry guns. As I've said before, it's not for when I leave the USA. It's for when I'm still in it.

It's getting a little out of hand.

2 arrested after shooting at crowded mall -
PlayStation 3 customers attacked - Crime & Punishment -

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Old 25-12-2006, 09:59   #2
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Yeah but no mall go'er retaliated. Which is kinda good anyway, imagine a few thousand mall go'ers all firing back, yikes! So anyway, no one fired back, so what is the relation to carrying a gun.
The next story is the same. If someone has pulled a firearm and has it trained on you and says give up the wallet, you have no time or ability to reach for a gun and if you did try, you would have a 99.99% chance of being shot first. Better to drop the wallet and and let the thug run.


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Old 25-12-2006, 11:39   #3
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But the place with most of the gun trouble is the place with most of the gun's.

And nutter's

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Old 25-12-2006, 12:14   #4
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Crazy world............
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Old 25-12-2006, 12:19   #5
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Smith & Wesson. You should never leave home without one.

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Old 25-12-2006, 13:15   #6

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I know it's a controversial post, but what I'm trying to impart is that many Americans face life or death gun situations (real, or in their imaginations from stories like this). This is why ordinary folks like myself, who are quite peaceful and quiet, find themselves wanting to have something around to keep people who may be boarding from getting inside.

I'm obviously not carrying a shotgun with me to go the the market and keep the mugger away. And Dave, you're absolutely right. If we had *no* guns, it would be better. But... it's too late for that many people do have them, especially the bad eggs.

My mother carries a pistol with her at all times also. She has a concealed weapon permit. She is a very reputable person with a real estate company. She has had a gun pulled on her once during her career, so now she feels she needs to be safe and carry one.

It's kind of like a "cold war" arms race over here. The bad guys have guns, so you need to have one too, or you're defenseless if they come knocking.

Certainly, in my utopia I would want no weapons at all... not even a board with a nail in it. But... I live here in this nutso country for now.

Rest assured, when I visit other countries, I have never felt the urge to have a gun around. Well, except in Israel. Everybody's got one loaded and sitting in their glove box in the car there! Yikes!

The point of the post was to try and shed a little light on why some Americans are so passionate about weapons. Not to prove anything, but just to paint the picture a little bit.
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Old 25-12-2006, 13:54   #7
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What in the world had this thread got to do with boating in general or cruising in particular. Sean, why post this crap here?
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Old 25-12-2006, 13:55   #8
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By the way, merry christmas everyone.
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Old 25-12-2006, 14:33   #9

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Um... if I wasn't mistaken, this *is* the firearms section? No?

This section has long (and sometimes tiresome) discussions about the need to carry a firearm aboard, while cruising. Many times, americans are GUN-ho (pun intended) about it. Often others outside the States are less than enthusiastic about firearms on board. I posted this so others might be able to see why (psychologically) some Americans would tend toward that viewpoint. These articles, in my opinion, suggest some of the socio-psychological causes for a stronger "pro gun" opinion in the States vs. elsewhere.

An intelligent response might have been more in order considering it was an intelligent post?
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Old 25-12-2006, 16:01   #10
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So what is the point? That the media in the States floods viewers with news about assaults and robberies? Or is this meant to imply that the US is somehow more dangerious than say El Salvador, Columbia, Nigeria or Moscow? (I have friends from each of the places who seem to thing that the US is a much safer place.) If this is meant to support a specific argument that US citizens are more likely to carry firearms because of higher violent crime is there any peer reviewed literature we can see that actually links the two?

As for personal safety, wouldn't we just be served better to simply pay attention? I would much rather avoid the reefs than to have to sail a boat that could survive every possible collision.

"Ollie, you know my feelings about arming morons: you arm one, you've got to arm them all, otherwise it wouldn't be good sport." Quoted from the Film: "Nobody's Fool"
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Old 25-12-2006, 19:40   #11
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Hey sully,

Listen, for what it's worth, your proposition doesn't hold water for me. I have lived and traveled in the US extensively and hear and see all the same news that Americans see and hear. Never once have I ever even considered that I would feel safer in America with a gun on my boat in my home in my car or on my belt. I think that America's penchant for guns is nothing more than a cultural hangover from the over romanticism of the lawless west dating back to it's settlement.
Candadians delight in recalling a famous photo from an early settlement in the Canadian west showing a sod building with a Royal Bank of Canada sign on it. The pleasure comes from the feeling that Canadians have always and will always be civilized and orderly. the founding principles of the country are "peace, order and good government" as opposed to "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" The desire to "protect oneself" implies the awareness that the selfish persuit of happiness comes at the expenxe of others and that one must be wary of others persuing your happiness.
Just a thought. Anyhow, thankfully, that is just an impression of the national character. As one might expect, on an individual level and on a day to day basis, I love Americans. (Mind you I only know thoses on and around the water!) I find the lot of you to be interested and interesting. And I'm glad none of you shoot me!
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Old 25-12-2006, 20:27   #12
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cat not quite true theres a town in alaska where its illegal not to carry a gun and they have zero crime
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Old 26-12-2006, 03:22   #13
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Originally Posted by northerncat
cat not quite true theres a town in alaska where its illegal not to carry a gun and they have zero crime
To second that,
In the late 80's Kennesaw GA mandated every home must have a weapon. Morton Grove IL baned personal ownership of weapons. Crime in Morton Grove went up. Crime in Kennesaw went down.
I personaly think, the posibility of a legal weapon in posesion of a potential victim deters some crime.

The thugs are always going to be out there. I equate them to the bullys when I was in elementary school. If you retialiate, they stop.

As far as the shootings in FL, I'm shocked no one shot back. FL enacted new carry and excessive force laws in 05. The new laws were designed to make it easier for legal citizens to carry in the open and in some public places. A legal citizen droping this scum in the mall could posibly have saved a life and and an expensive trial/appeal were going to watch on TV.
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Old 26-12-2006, 07:19   #14
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I think you are on target, Sully,

No law abiding person likes the thought of carrying a gun or shooting someone. It's neccessity that drives this need.

Argueing that "I've never had the need for a gun" is a logical fallacy. It's like going to Vegas and rolling red 15 times on the roullette wheel, then turning to your wife and saying you're going to gamble your entire home equity line the next roll - on red because you've never had a black yet. The odds are no different on the 16th roll than they were on the 1st. The same is true with crime. Some people never get touched by it. Some, get run over once a year. That's the way odds work.

To argue that having no options during a criminal attack, to ensure you are not prepared and have no defense, is to rely on devine providence to protect you and your family. God bless you, but as for me, I'd rather help in the process!

The one thing I don't like is how some non-gun people constantly insinuate that people like you, who have made a thoughtful and cautious arguement for the possibility of breing prepared, are often treated as a "gun nut". As part of the problem, i.e., there are too many guns, that's why there is so much crime.

As a parting thought, I often think some people don't realize there truly bad people out there. We're not talking about bike thieves at school. We're talking the kind that won't just let you give them your wallet and walk away. They are out there, sadly. Hopefully, God willing, none of us, armed or not, will come across one. If we do, I hope it's one of us who is at least prepared enough to have a chance.
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Old 26-12-2006, 09:12   #15
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[quote=ssullivan] She has had a gun pulled on her once during her career, so now she feels she needs to be safe and carry one.

Of course, this does not make her safer in fact, just in feeling.

I can't imagine circumstances in which the weapon would be any use to her or would do anything other than get her in worse trouble. I suppose it's possible that pre-emptive use of the thing might prevent an attack, but how would you prove it later? I court, for instance?

The solution is to get handguns out of the hands of people who mis-use them. That will take an enormous political will, especially in the U.S., where the "right to keep and bear arms" has assumed an almost sacred character.

A bit further north, we have the same issue with bad guys and guns (most illegally imported from south of the 49th) but I don't know anyone who a) has a handgun, b) carries one.

This is, incidentally, the anniversary of a case in Toronto last year, in which a young girl was killed when some gang-bangers started a shootout in the Boxing Day crowds downtown.

There was much hair-tearing about gun crime (which remains relatively low in Canada) but I saw no suggestion that more of us carrying weapons would make matters better.

Just to ramble a few lines further... I recall several years ago chatting with a young American who insisted that an armed society is a polite society (which may actually be true when the arms in question are long knives but makes no sense at all when they are explosive-powered tubes). I forgot to ask him at the time for any evidence that the U.S. is more polite than, say, New Zealand.

It's a tough issue. And I hasten to add, I was trained as a lad in the use of several firearms (including one memorable morning when I got to fire a Thompson sub-machine gun) so I'm not reflexively anti-gun.


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