Piracy and Firearms - Another View

[18Bravo]

Hello to all. I'm new to the board. Been lurking here for awhile before I registered...my apologies. I think this forum is the best thing going and really enjoy reading it whenever I get a chance. As my profile says, I'm a full time liveaboard and have been for quite some time. Not much sand has passed under my keel since the war started back on '01 so my old girl has been a dock queen mostly since then.

Now that I'm done doing deployments to the sand box and retired from our "uncle", I look forward to getting back into the lifestyle and catching up on too many lost days that could have been better spent underway.

I'm writing/replying because the subject of guns on board is one that I've touched on in a professional capacity many times. I wrote an article about it several years back and it is posted at:
Guns On Board | MaritimeSecurity.com

It is a subject for much heated debate. I'm of the school of thought that if you want a gun well then you sure as heck need to learn all you can about it before you need to use it (hopefully never). If you don't like guns, well then that is Ok too. To each his own. But if I can offer at least a little advice....get a true professional to teach you....don't rely on the "magazine readers". Get someone who is licensed and has a good track record as an instructor. This isn't an advert for me as I'm not actively instructing anymore so don't take it that way. I'm just offering advice in an area where I have a little bit of practical experience.

Fair winds and following seas to all,
dave

[Fishman_Tx]

You're the one that expressed a fear of encroaching usurpation of your "right" (a sort of international version of the Second Amendment, apparently) to bring guns anywhere.

Now, apparently you're the paragon of virtue, ready to submit to any level of bureaucracy or inconvenience to comply with local laws. Forgive me if I'm sceptical.

Bring my gun anywhere? Not the point, you've misconstrued my meaning and once again you lump me in with the radicals and misrepresented my intent and my statements by agrandizing them.

In international waters, I do as I please and in US territorial waters, I'm afforded my 2nd amendment rights as long as I follow the rule of law.
I won't discuss my fear of my rights being encroached as that would require a lengthy discussion concerning Liberal Politics. And Political Discussion (Tao..) is not allowed here. (Better? )

[Edit: It isn't a matter of liberal or conservative, it's any politics that we try hard to keep out of CF. Please, carry on. TaoJones]

What fears I do refer to is folks like yourself who seem to be afraid of some butthead shooting first and asking questions later and some innocent getting killed, therefore "guns are not a good thing" as you had intimated in a different thread which is now closed. That discussion I will NOT continue here, so plz stop trying to continue that line and talk us out of or make arguement against carrying if we so choose. (Yes you have, if you look over the entire content of all discussed) Refer to the bold print below and leave it alone.

For the last time, i'll quote myself:

If one acts like an idiot trying to be Rambo and gets their head blown off in the process, or the boat sinks and you drown; because you don't know what your doing...tough luck. Hopefully, your stupidity doesn't kill someone else in the process. Being snide about it doesn't help anything but causes further angst and anger. Make your own choices and live your own life, but don't expect the rest of us to live the same way.


If you are not prepared or your boat is not prepared, you take your life into your own hands and subject yourself to the whims of nature and "Murphy". Even with the best preparation, we can run into trouble. Being armed and *trained for it is just another facet of that preparedness. Some will choose to arm themselves and some not. We lament the victims of piracy and assault like that couple in CA that were "macheted", (Was it in the DR, I forget?) but we don't blame or berate them for their choice whether to go armed or not. Bad things happen to good people and, armed or not, it may have made no difference. Honestly, one shouldn't give "Murphy" an even break whatsoever. For myself, I like to keep the odds in my favor. Hopefully, we won't have to read here about one of our own finding themselves "in the filter of Darwin's self-cleaning gene pool".

Now, where in all this did I SAY I should be allowed to do what I want, where I want?

I'm done.

[Cloud IX]

18 Bravo,

Great article that I overall agree with. Only two items I would comment on.

#1-Florida's use of force guidelines do not apply to all states. Some states have a "all possible retreat" requirement which basically states that prior to employing deadly force, the person must retreat as far as possible and still feel his/her life, or the life of someone they are legally entitled to protect, is in imminent danger. Use of deadly force to protect property is, in many states, not a justification.

#2-Concerning loaded weapons, if you are to use them in self defense, they need to be ready to use almost immediately. I am not arguing the safety issue, but rather pointing out that you need to be so familiar with the chosen weapon as to be able to load it in the dark, with shaking hands, while the Admiral is yammering at you , in a short period of time.

As a retired Fed, I am authorized to carry concealed in all 50 states and US territories. (Side note, I don't bother.) That authority doesn't export to other countries. My weapon of choice when I do carry is a baby Glock .40. I could not agree more with your position that a 18" barrel pump gun is absoultely the best for home/boat defense.

On a side note, last month one of the adjoining boats on my dock had a 0300 visitor who had moved through the cockpit and opened the hatch to the saloon when the owner awoke and yelled at him. (Boat occupied by owner and wife.) The burglar, who had been dropped off by boat, bypassing the security fence, ran up the dock and discovered a key was needed on the inside of the gate as well as the outside. He jumped into the water and swam to an adjoining dock, only to discover he was locked in there as well. Police arrested him on that dock. The arresting officer (Washington Metro Police) told the boat owner he would normally arrest the guy for burglary, but that since he was drunk, he did not feel it necessary. The boat owner went balistic and demanded the subject be charged. He was charged with burglary of an "unoccupied" dwelling, following which the charges were dropped completely. That's the DC court system for you.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by 18Bravo

To each his own. But if I can offer at least a little advice....get a true professional to teach you....don't rely on the "magazine readers". Get someone who is licensed and has a good track record as an instructor.

Absolutely. And don't think you don't need that instruction when you choose a shotgun. Learn to precision-shoot a rifle first. Also, basic army training is insufficient, I know that because I had that and was ridiculed for it afterwards (in a funny way of course ;-) I really learned how to shoot after I got out of the army.

I would suggest to start with professional instruction with a .22 LR rifle (a decent one, like an Anschutz) at 50 meters prone first, until you can shoot at least 90 points with ten rounds. Kneeling and standing are next and the score can be eased somewhat to say 80 points. Do a bigger caliber after that to get used to recoil without loosing precision (the higher caliber is easier than .22LR). Good choices are AR15 or Steyr.

When you select a shotgun, 12-gauge is the ammo you can buy everywhere but a smaller bore would be better. Forget about pistol grips etc. and keep the barrel above legal length to stay out of trouble with authorities.

Now, I'll duck for the gun-haters ;-)

cheers,
Nick.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by cat man do

...and then I think you'll find they'll take it off you over here

That's not a problem because they will return it when I leave. All the examples listed allow you to enter port of entry with a gun aboard. They will even arrange transport to your port of exit if you request that.

We have a good, gun locker and have been to countries that state the guns must be surrendered. When they learn I have a shotgun they didn't even bother to come and seal the locker. Rifles and especially handguns are a completely different matter though.

About rifles "up North": they are required because of polar bears. A think a shotgun that can fire magnum slugs is the lightest allowed. If you have no gun, you can normally rent one, but you'll pay dearly I think because only tourists need to rent...

cheers,
Nick.

[Fishman_Tx]

Absolutely. And don't think you don't need that instruction when you choose a shotgun. Learn to precision-shoot a rifle first. Also, basic army training is insufficient, I know that because I had that and was ridiculed for it afterwards (in a funny way of course ;-) I really learned how to shoot after I got out of the army.

SO true (military training). I'm a 20 year vet and served thru Gulf Wars 1 & 2, Somalia, etc. Standard military training is not geared toward home defense nor the weapons used therein. There are a lot of reasonably priced courses out there one can take. If you pack, at home or abroad, you should be trained professionally.

[David_Old_Jersey]

Originally Posted by 18Bravo

I wrote an article about it several years back

A good article. Welcome to CF.com

[sneuman]

Originally Posted by Fishman_Tx

Bring my gun anywhere? Not the point, you've misconstrued my meaning and once again you lump me in with the radicals and misrepresented my intent and my statements by agrandizing them.

Apologies. Somehow I misinterpreted this post of yours. It sounded to me like paranoia:

Before you know it, you won't be able to make landfall anywhere with a weapon on board. I'll refer to the old adage of the frog in the boiling water.

"stay asleep! we're not taking your rights away! your not being monitored! we're not listening to your phone calls! your just dreaming or your mistaken"

wake up!

[Fishman_Tx]

Just my "Wake up and Watch out" sermon. The more I see the trend toward globalization going forward, the "itchy-er" I get. It's not paranoia...yet! Just my opinion of the trend I "see" for the distant future if things continue on this tack. I'll be long dead and gone before it gets that far.

(Refer to book "1984")

[sneuman]

Originally Posted by Fishman_Tx

Just my "Wake up and Watch out" sermon. The more I see the trend toward globalization going forward, the "itchy-er" I get. It's not paranoia...yet! Just my opinion of the trend I "see" for the distant future if things continue on this tack. I'll be long dead and gone before it gets that far.

(Refer to book "1984")

Ok, apology accepted.

[John A]

Originally Posted by Fishman_Tx

Just my "Wake up and Watch out" sermon. The more I see the trend toward globalization going forward, the "itchy-er" I get. It's not paranoia...yet! Just my opinion of the trend I "see" for the distant future if things continue on this tack. I'll be long dead and gone before it gets that far.

(Refer to book "1984")

During my school days we would all practice getting under our desk to protect us from a nucular blast, new homes came with a bomb shelter in the back yard.
The Cuba missle crises, the Kenndeys murders, the riots, Viet Nam.
We were told that if we voted for Goldwater we'd suffer a larger war in Viet Nam. I voted against Johnsons cabinet (for Goldwater) and sure enough the war got bigger.
Nixion and Watergate. Carter and 10 percent unemployment with Inflation at 15% at the same time, the gas lines.

And thru it all my life is far better from the experience of living. I've been able to enjoy the adventure of cruising, the enjoyment of discovery, and just the absolute fun of waking up in the morning to see what was going to happen next.
This country (US) allowed me to leave the farming life at the age of 29, move to California, and without a college degree, complete my work experience as a Data Base Administer on a very large mainframe computer at Stanford University.
Your frustration is yours not mine!
What an increditable waste of time and energy to be so negitive.
end of rant John

[Fishman_Tx]

That's ok John, I'm not the rabid type. Nor do I waste my time with it. Whether or not something is a waste is a matter of perception. My thoughts are my own, but I don't break out the soap box too often.

Actually, I'm a very positive person most of the time but I'm not deluded. My itch is to leave ratrace behind and the rats with it. I want the simple life and once my "bankrolling" is done (not long now!), I'm getting a nice Cat, a nice cat<furbearing>, and a nice little island on the Pac side of Panama with a palapa under the trees. And the rest of the world can go by without me if it wants to.... or not .

[John A]

Fishman

I didn't mean to direct my comments to you directly. Please accept my apology.
But please, if you're going to post a negitive comment(#144 and others), don't recoil in righteous indignation when someone disagrees with you.
John

[Chief Engineer]

"As a retired Fed, I am authorized to carry concealed in all 50 states and US territories"

Don't try that in the Peoples un-Democratic Republik of Maryland.

You need to have special supersecret permission from the State Polizei

[Fishman_Tx]

LOL John, no sweat. That wasn't indignation, righteous or otherwise. Just my opinion of things. I don't get too wound up unless directly "attacked". Kinda hard to detect emotional intent on these things, ain't it?

If I have a negative view of where this world is going, can you blame me? I've done 20 years and 3 wars, 1 wife and 4 kids; I'm almost done. Hence my exit strategy; leave it all behind for a grass hut and someone warm and brown to wrap a leg around.

Peace!