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**boatman61** · 18-02-2013, 14:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

Where to start? AR15 in German waters. Was that yacht inbound to a port of entry or did they already clear in without specifying the gun? I would expect German customs to take the gun in their custody until you leave. The Germans are well equiped to protect yachts in their waters from non-existing pirates. That said, I could understand the AR15 being a problem anyhow as it isn't a boat-gun at all.

If you don't want customs taking your gun in custody, you should not bring your gun or not go to that country. It's very simple I think. This means that I won't go to any country that I would not feel comfortable without a gun aboard, like Mexico right now. There are plenty cruisers in Mexico, so we are more careful than them, or better informed. There are also plenty countries where I don't go even when I could keep the gun, like Venezuela, mainland Honduras etc. Then there are plenty of countries left where I go. I only got the gun out once and that was many years ago in Venezuela, which is the reason I mentioned that country above. Places like Somalia are a no-no for us.

I also think that just having a gun aboard doesn't help much, if at all. You need a plan and probably additional measures like reinforced companionway etc. The only proven tactic against boardings is to lock yourself in, delaying entry of the bad guys, which give you time to arm yourself and make them understand it's lethal to stay aboard. This is all discussed by security experts in the book "Pirates Aboard", which is a good read for anyone in this thread who didn't read it yet. This technique has a 100% successrate for those not wishing to read it.

I would not mind an universal law allowing yachts a shotgun and outdoors-gun like a S&W Governor aboard at all times, like it is in much of the Caribbean, although handguns are often a no-no here too. The reason is that we're living an outdoors-life, like Atoll describes. There might be a big angry Bushmaster snake between me and my dinghy, or a croc trying to eat the neighbors, or hunting opportunities; cruisers even get invited by Indians to join their hunt etc. etc. This is all very different from German waters.

Anyway, I still believe CF has to many extremists at both ends of the spectrum to enable a sensible discussion. I believe in electronic counter measures too and have written about that before also. But even parts of that are illegal in some countries.

You don't need a rifle mate you need something with serious stopping power at upto 150yds.. any further and you hitting anyone in a bouncing boat from a rolling yacht would be like winning the lottery...
A good double barrel 12 bore shotgun is adequate for that...

Take 2 SG cartridges and open carefully.. melt lead and pour into a mould to form a solid ball... measure a percentage of the powder from one and add to the powder from the other (not saying how much or size of ball).. give you guys something to play with till Spring... tamp down and refold.. couple of drops of candle wax to seal from damp and your good to go

Fire the first two shots as they bear up.. if your any good 15sec's is enough to reload while they react... repeat firing then switch to LG if they're still coming..
I've seen that recipe drop a 400lb wild boar full charge in a jheel in the Punjab... good accuracy to boot.

The reason your gun is taken is you do not possess a valid gun licence..

GrowleyMonster · 18-02-2013, 15:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by boatman61

You don't need a rifle mate you need something with serious stopping power at upto 150yds.. any further and you hitting anyone in a bouncing boat from a rolling yacht would be like winning the lottery...
A good double barrel 12 bore shotgun is adequate for that...

Take 2 SG cartridges and open carefully.. melt lead and pour into a mould to form a solid ball... measure a percentage of the powder from one and add to the powder from the other (not saying how much or size of ball).. give you guys something to play with till Spring... tamp down and refold.. couple of drops of candle wax to seal from damp and your good to go

Fire the first two shots as they bear up.. if your any good 15sec's is enough to reload while they react... repeat firing then switch to LG if they're still coming..
I've seen that recipe drop a 400lb wild boar full charge in a jheel in the Punjab... good accuracy to boot.

The reason your gun is taken is you do not possess a valid gun licence..

LOL on gun license!

Easier to just buy shells loaded with deer slugs. Also, unfortunately courts sometimes go bananas over even righteous shootings when homebrew ammo is used. Commercial factory loads give zealous prosecutors one less thing to grab hold of.

**atoll** · 18-02-2013, 15:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Don Lucas

bubba says that dynamite works on all those!

after chatting to a few one handed dynamite fishermen in east africa that had mistook fast fuse for slow fuse i decided that spear fishing was much safer,though maybe not as much fun

**boatman61** · 18-02-2013, 15:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrowleyMonster

LOL on gun license!

Easier to just buy shells loaded with deer slugs. Also, unfortunately courts sometimes go bananas over even righteous shootings when homebrew ammo is used. Commercial factory loads give zealous prosecutors one less thing to grab hold of.

LOL... things were not quite so sophisticated in the Pakistan of the late 1950's... the Russians had not yet invaded Afganistan..

goboatingnow · 18-02-2013, 16:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blue Crab

Nah, that's for nancies. Coffee is for closers. What I keep handy is some funeral music and Ludwig's 9th to play full blast across the swamp. Pyrats and bubbas flee. And I play some 12 ga percussion in accompaniment. More like punctuation really.

Have a nice safe day, Dave. It's my birthday. I'm headed over to the local pub for some free libations. I'm not carrying ... but I could be, here in the land of the free.

Jeepers can you imagine a bunch of drunks in a bar all carrying .. Where I was born , we'd have wiped half the population out after a few Friday and Saturday nights.

Ps in the land of the free , I couldn't get a waiter to give my 16 year old daughter a glass of wine at a nice meal were we're having. Yep the Land of the free all right. ( isnt that the great thing about propaganda , you end up believing it yourself )
Have a few pints on me.

Mind you here in the land of the oppressed , beat the crap out of the rulers for 1000 years, then re invent 6 different styles of government before breakfast, liberate the peasants, free the bourgeoisie, repeatedly fight 1000s of wars , all to ensure the French can go nude, the Brits can drink warm beer and the Germans can invent 900 versions of sausage , we still make the best beer on the planet.

Dave

goboatingnow · 18-02-2013, 16:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by tropicalescape

I dont think its about,for me anyway, Places where you would feel the need ,its about when times get tough and people that were your friends the years before have now gotten very desperate and start doing things that would have been considered "un-nessecery" when the economic times were better ... I have seen peoples morals and dispositions change very fast in places where the buying and selling of currencey changes on a daily bases.. One day they are getting 35 to 1(US$) and the next it goes to 60 to 1 and stays there! dosent take long before they get to looking for an "easy mark"..Thats one of the reasons that I dont understand why we cant discuss Politics on CF as it is very important to be in the Know about such things ..

Where is that exactly. Few societies breakdown to the point of mass slaughter. It only happens when on the other side you have a military force and even then history shows us they loose eventually.

I fail to understand why gun adherents need to justify their existence by continuously promulgating the potential of an Societal collapse and resulting Armageddon . Its even stranger when its suggested it may be in the US, a country where there more police and national guard then most other countries on the planet.

If you like guns, have them, I do, bit please don't tell me I need to hold off Zombie flesh eating monsters.

Dave

goboatingnow · 18-02-2013, 16:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by SunSpray

Why doesn't anyone consider using TASER's for onboard close range problems?

Illegal in many many countries

goboatingnow · 18-02-2013, 16:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Group9

If you have never been shot at, it's hard to put yourself in the shoes of someone who has. If you've never had anyone try to kill you, and think that means it can't happen, good luck with that.

The vast vast majority of people living in reasonable societies. ( what we laughable call the developed world) go from cradle to grave without ever seeing a gun , never mind having one pointed at you

Dave

goboatingnow · 18-02-2013, 16:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by boatman61

You don't need a rifle mate you need something with serious stopping power at upto 150yds.. any further and you hitting anyone in a bouncing boat from a rolling yacht would be like winning the lottery...
A good double barrel 12 bore shotgun is adequate for that...

Take 2 SG cartridges and open carefully.. melt lead and pour into a mould to form a solid ball... measure a percentage of the powder from one and add to the powder from the other (not saying how much or size of ball).. give you guys something to play with till Spring... tamp down and refold.. couple of drops of candle wax to seal from damp and your good to go

Fire the first two shots as they bear up.. if your any good 15sec's is enough to reload while they react... repeat firing then switch to LG if they're still coming..
I've seen that recipe drop a 400lb wild boar full charge in a jheel in the Punjab... good accuracy to boot.

The reason your gun is taken is you do not possess a valid gun licence..

The US boat had the firearm removed because it was illegal to have one in German waters.

As to modifying cartridges , could I suggest that is not a thing to recommend

Whether you have a license or not , ,any country's will secure the firearm on land as long as you remain in their territorial waters. Which makes it a pain as you have to return to the first port to recollect the firearm. This is especially true of rifles and definitely handguns. You may get to keep a shotgun if you have adaquate secure storage, like a gun safe onboard.
But I agree, if I wanted to bring a firearm on my trips ( and I most definitely don't ) my mossberg pump would be the man.

But I've never seen a situation on a boat where a gun could be deployed

Dave

**boatman61** · 18-02-2013, 16:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

The US boat had the firearm removed because it was illegal to have one in German waters.

As to modifying cartridges , could I suggest that is not a thing to recommend

Whether you have a license or not , ,any country's will secure the firearm on land as long as you remain in their territorial waters. Which makes it a pain as you have to return to the first port to recollect the firearm.

Dave

Your telling me if you have a shotgun and licence in the UK you cannot take it on your boat even if you have the required steel gun cabinet through bolted to a solid bulkhead/deck section for safe keeping when not in use as you have too in a house.. did not realise the UK had become so Draconian since I left..

tropicalescape · 18-02-2013, 16:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Where is that exactly. Few societies breakdown to the point of mass slaughter. It only happens when on the other side you have a military force and even then history shows us they loose eventually.

I fail to understand why gun adherents need to justify their existence by continuously promulgating the potential of an Societal collapse and resulting Armageddon . Its even stranger when its suggested it may be in the US, a country where there more police and national guard then most other countries on the planet.

If you like guns, have them, I do, bit please don't tell me I need to hold off Zombie flesh eating monsters.

Dave

Jamaica is a great example, there dollar value changes daily some times and it can cause problems after it has been down for long periods...I am not reffering to armageddon or anything like that ..I am speaking of the once placid guy only wanting to show you the sites for a few dollars US and he is friendly and accomedating one year and then you come back a few yrs later ,the economic enviroment has changed for the bad in the west and even worse in this very underdeveloped country and this nice tourist guy has now become a thug and dosent recognize you and attempts to hold you up! I have seen this sort of thing many ,many times after going down there for past 30 yrs... 30 yrs,gosh im getting old!

goboatingnow · 18-02-2013, 17:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by boatman61

Your telling me if you have a shotgun and licence in the UK you cannot take it on your boat even if you have the required steel gun cabinet through bolted to a solid bulkhead/deck section for safe keeping when not in use as you have too in a house.. did not realise the UK had become so Draconian since I left..

Why in the name of god would you sail in the UK with a gun onboard

Actually , you don't even need a certificate to a gun onboard in the UK , of its deemed to be part of its equipment. You do need a certificate to buy it or transport it to and from the ship. ( a ship is defined as a vessel that makes international journeys )

What I was referring to , was in my experience and in reading that many customs authorities can and do detain the firearm while you are in the terrority. This especially applies to rifles and handguns.

As I ve said if I wanted to the best is a pump action shotgun , generally seen as a sporting firearm by authorities. 00 ammunition etc. , awkward thing on a boat. , slow to retrieve , slow to reload , limited magazine capacity and bulky and heavy ammo.

Dave

goboatingnow · 18-02-2013, 17:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by tropicalescape

Jamaica is a great example, there dollar value changes daily some times and it can cause problems after it has been down for long periods...I am not reffering to armageddon or anything like that ..I am speaking of the once placid guy only wanting to show you the sites for a few dollars US and he is friendly and accomedating one year and then you come back a few yrs later ,the economic enviroment has changed for the bad in the west and even worse in this very underdeveloped country and this nice tourist guy has now become a thug and dosent recognize you and attempts to hold you up! I have seen this sort of thing many ,many times after going down there for past 30 yrs... 30 yrs,gosh im getting old!

I've been there , not my cup of tea. And anyway you won't be carrying there anyway , so why bother talking about it.

Dave