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Old 18-02-2013, 06:54   #166
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Re: Piracy :-/

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Originally Posted by s/v Jedi View Post
Who said that? I never heard any pro-guns CF member say that you don't need to be trained and experienced with their use. It is remarks like above that make reasonable discussion on the subject impossible.

Legal? It is legal to carry on the high seas. In 99% or more of the nations, nothing happens to you when you declare a gun during entry. It is easy when you are honest, difficult and with risk when you lie about it.
I think we are on the same page, brother.
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Old 18-02-2013, 06:54   #167
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Re: Piracy :-/

Has anyone thought to ask the pirates for their opinion? After all, the issue of armed sailors is relevant to their occupational safety.
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Old 18-02-2013, 06:56   #168
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Re: Piracy :-/

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Maybe a new thread... Pirates required.. must be prepared to travel and be shot at... funerals at sea free of charge..
Purely in the interests of research and science of course...


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Old 18-02-2013, 06:57   #169
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Re: Piracy :-/

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Has anyone thought to ask the pirates for their opinion? After all, the issue of armed sailors is relevant to their occupational safety.
Somali Pirate Attacks On Decline
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Old 18-02-2013, 07:09   #170
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Re: Piracy :-/

for the gun people why do you want a gun on your boat:

1- fight off pirates/attacks while on the open water
2- protection while in port

I thought of doing a poll, but could not think of a title what wouldn't just sound like a toll
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Old 18-02-2013, 07:15   #171
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Re: Piracy :-/

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Originally Posted by Don Lucas View Post
for the gun people why do you want a gun on your boat:

1- fight off pirates/attacks while on the open water
2- protection while in port

I thought of doing a poll, but could not think of a title what wouldn't just sound like a toll
I'll quote from a TV series (Burn Notice) that I thought summed self defense and guns up nicely.

Little Boy: "Are you going to shoot Mr. Pine?"

Michael Westin: "I don't think that's going to be necessary."

Little Boy: "What if he tries to shoot you?"

Michael Westin: "Well, in that case, it will be necessary."
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Old 18-02-2013, 07:15   #172
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Re: Piracy :-/

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Who said that? I never heard any pro-guns CF member say that you don't need to be trained and experienced with their use. It is remarks like above that make reasonable discussion on the subject impossible.

Legal? It is legal to carry on the high seas. In 99% or more of the nations, nothing happens to you when you declare a gun during entry. It is easy when you are honest, difficult and with risk when you lie about it.
Obviously you have a lot of experience, in the area of clearing in firearms. Perhaps you might explain the situation to the US boat which had its AR-15 confiscated in German waters last year , As far as Im aware sailors don't actually spend a lot of time on the "high seas" .they spend the majority of it in national waters.

IN my experience, in two trips, the firearm is usually declared, handled in and collected again on departure from national waters, furthermore I find therefore that having that device locked away on land , not much use to me in the defense of my boat., The main reason why it is locked away, is in my experience, the official only cares that the firearm will not be stolen from you and turn up in their arena.

The reason there isnt a "reasonable" debate on yacht security and defensive strategies is that such debates get dominated by the "carry a gun" bridge, almost without exception US based and in effect believing they can transport US law to where they travel next

If the debate was about defence in US water, absolutely its a great debate, and I know exactly what Id carry, a good semi auto rifle for distance and a decent handgun for up close and personal. Im a reasonable shot with either.

But unfortunately the world isnt like the US.

SO why not debate "defensive measure" that dont depend on either hard or impossible to get items,( or reply on combat training etc etc) This debate is then actually useful to a majority of people who dont know anything about "separate and mitigate" , other then it sounds like Baking to me

DAve
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Old 18-02-2013, 07:22   #173
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Re: Piracy :-/

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Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
Obviously you have a lot of experience, in the area of clearing in firearms. Perhaps you might explain the situation to the US boat which had its AR-15 confiscated in German waters last year , As far as Im aware sailors don't actually spend a lot of time on the "high seas" .they spend the majority of it in national waters.

IN my experience, in two cases, the firearm is usually handled in and collected again on departure from national waters, furthermore I find therefore that having that device locked away on land , not much use to me in the defense of my boat.,

The reason there isnt a "reasonable" debate on yacht security and defensive strategies is that such debates get dominated by the "carry a gun" bridge, almost without exception US based and in effect believing they can transport US law to where they travel next

If the debate was about defence in US water, absolutely its a great debate, and I know exactly what Id carry, a good semi auto rifle for distance and a decent handgun for up close and personal. Im a reasonable shot with either.

But unfortunately the world isnt like the US.

SO why not debate "defensive measure" that dont depend on either hard or impossible to get items, This debate is then actually useful to a majority of people

DAve
You have a good point. A gun is not the only way to protect yourself. I've been in law enforcement for over 25 years. If you want to make your boat burglary proof, almost anywhere, there are ways to do it without a firearm.

I've always thought a switch by my bunk, that lit up the deck with floodlights would be a good deterent if you thought something was up. A second switch, that would set off a siren or air horn, would be a good escalation, if the problem was still ongoing. That would at least work in a harbor.

Criminals, everywhere, are looking for a 100 to 0 advantage. They are not looking for any kind of contest or challenge. The human mind is the most powerful weapon of all, if used, and imagination is the only limit.
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Old 18-02-2013, 07:28   #174
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Re: Piracy :-/

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Originally Posted by Don Lucas View Post
for the gun people why do you want a gun on your boat:

1- fight off pirates/attacks while on the open water
2- protection while in port

I thought of doing a poll, but could not think of a title what wouldn't just sound like a toll
we did 2 circumnavigations with firearms onboard ,in reality their principle uses were.

1-shooting large fish ,that were difficult to land alive.

2-shooting goats,gazelle,wild pigs and chickens when the oppertunity arose

3-blasting flotsam in the water, off the aft deck to alleviate the boredom and give the guns a clean and oil.

4-to wave at suspect fishermen following a little bit too closely.

5-give bored customs officers something to do,it takes quite a while to count 2000 rounds of ammo!

never used them in anger for defence,unless you count seagulls
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Old 18-02-2013, 07:37   #175
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Re: Piracy :-/

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and chickens when the oppertunity arose
dont you find the owners get pissed at you .....

Dave
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Old 18-02-2013, 07:39   #176
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Re: Piracy :-/

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Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
dont you find the owners get pissed at you .....

Dave
only if they happened to be holding the bird at the time
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Old 18-02-2013, 07:56   #177
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Re: Piracy :-/

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only if they happened to be holding the bird at the time

Of course I should have guessed, the **** from a dying chicken/hen is awful hard to get off his clothes, a bit of laundry should get things right!

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Old 18-02-2013, 08:11   #178
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Re: Piracy :-/

mostly we shot "feral" chickens in places like chagos where the owners had long since left,or marquesas in the many isolated anchorages where you find abandoned shacks,fruit trees from infrequent occupation.
west africa,along the banks of the gambia river,sini salom and casamanche,during the winter their is fantastic grouse hunting!
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Old 18-02-2013, 08:14   #179
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Re: Piracy :-/

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mostly we shot "feral" chickens in places like chagos where the owners had long since left,or marquesas in the many isolated anchorages where you find abandoned shacks,fruit trees from infrequent occupation.
west africa,along the banks of the gambia river,sini salom and casamanche,during the winter their is fantastic grouse hunting!
I must get a out of doing deliveries to 1st world places.
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Old 18-02-2013, 08:15   #180
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pirate Re: Piracy :-/

That was a good read about Somalian pirates. Best quote: "Armed guards aboard cargo ships and an international naval armada that carries out onshore raids have put a huge dent in piracy and might even be ending the scourge." Bad guys understand good guys with guns.


#4 on Atoll's list

"to wave at suspect fishermen following a little bit too closely."

You betcha! My ex-wife and I ran into this situation in the ICW down in cajun country. Deep in the swamp. The second time the bubbas in the jon boat checked us out, we rounded a bend out of sight and I unloaded a fusillade of showboating firepower. Didn't see them again AND we carried on another 20 miles before setting the hook AND we kept an armed anchor watch all night.

Bad guys understand good guys with guns.

Seems like every day or so we read of some Middle Eastern suicide bomber or car bomber killing a buttload of people. Has anyone in those countries even thought of banning bombs? Oh, they have? Well, there you go then.

I also note that the UK and Oz population combined is less than a third of the US, and those folks haven't the legal basis for gun-totin' That the good ol' Mericans have. Plus, I don't think most peaceniks are facing a foreign invasion along their southern border like the US is. If those pesky Canadians start sneaking in, we, already a minority, will be toast. Piracy can take on many faces bouys and gulls.
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