PFD - Where to start

[deluxe68]

The video posted makes great sense but the Mustang foam vest does not have the capability of accepting a harness. At least nothing is listed on the Mustang web site. We have a few coastal inflatables with the West Marine brand, I would like to get something with an integrated harness for offshore.

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by Macblaze

I have an inflatable from Cabellas of all places; uses the standard mustang cartridges. Does what I need it to do. But I am not a fan of them (inflatables) when it comes to really being safe.

This video by an ex-coastie convinced me that other than for casual use, inflatable just aren't the best choice...

https://vimeo.com/132245870

Good video.

[dennismckim]

I did like Mario Vittale's video (even if the coughing/choking with the inflatable device was a bit forced), but it was labeled on his website as episode #1, and was posted almost two years ago (June 2015). Several times he referred to future episodes.
Have any subsequent episodes been published?

[IslandHopper]

Originally Posted by robbievardon

Many years ago the instructors stated that the wearer should grasp the neck opening with both hands to prevent the jacket from being forced over the head as it hit the water with a number of fatalities reported from broken necks.What is the current view on this?

It is still taught that way today, and we do the same with abandon ship drills at work, but it is for the use of the below type (SOLAS) Life Jacket, not inflatable ones....

[deluxe68]

Originally Posted by dennismckim

I did like Mario Vittale's video (even if the coughing/choking with the inflatable device was a bit forced), but it was labeled on his website as episode #1, and was posted almost two years ago (June 2015). Several times he referred to future episodes.
Have any subsequent episodes been published?

Not that i could find.

[Suijin]

Originally Posted by rbk

Also the talk about PFD’s going over people’s heads is mostly due to purchasing ‘off the shelf’ items or online. GO AND GET A PROPERLY FITTED PFD!! And this will not be an issue.

This is irresponsibly bad advice. Even those inflatables with an integrated harness, which grip you firmly around the torso when properly fitted, can ride up. Every governing body of offshore racing requires crotch straps based on research and incident post mortem reviews. Safety at Sea training seminars make you just more in a pool with a well fitted PFD without crotch straps so you understand why they are important.

Leg straps are not a substitute for a properly fitted PFD, but a properly fitted PFD performs dramatically better with leg straps.

[Suijin]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

But in creating a pdf so that it is best for an unconscious person, legislators gave us a pdf that is sub optimal for a conscious wearer.

Of all the people going overboard, what percentage are unconscious?

An auto inflatable pdf can be a dangerous thing to the person overboard. A pdf designed for holding one's head above the water at all times can become an obstacle in rescue and recovery.

I agree that everything is a compromise, but with an inflatable PFD you have an inflation tube and valve. You can let some air out or even all of it to increase your mobility, and then reinflate through the tube if desired.

Swimming with an inflated PFD is virtually impossible. Really the question could come down to the percentage of people who go over the side and then need immediate mobility vs. the percentage who go over the side unconscious. Who knows what the numbers are regardless of what we simply assume.

And it's not just about being unconscious. The first rule of MOB is that someone keeps their eyes on the MOB victim, if possible. Much easier to do offshore if their bright yellow bladder inflates immediately.

[barnakiel]

In warmer climates though you may often prefer a harness NOT to be integrated. Unless you carry a separate harness.

Pfd are not comfortable and neoprene vests are out of question in the tropics.

b.

[robbievardon]

Suijkin/Dockhead, first off I never said I support lifejackets without a crutch strap. It is a good idea, but like many things the simple solution can take years to arrive. If you happen to be unconscious you are hardly likely to jump overboard. Dockhead it may be
"ridiculous" to you,but if you look at old film footage you are unlikely to see crutch straps. The general idea was to pull the waist strap tight to keep you in the lifejacket,hands on the collar to stop the lifejacket being forced up by the pressure of hitting the water in a feet first.It also helps protect the arm/shoulder joint when you land from 20ft,30ft,40ft drop. I thought the idea of a forum was to pass around information and views not to be rude. Ultimately if you proceed logically then lifejackets should be custom made for each person.

[Macblaze]

Originally Posted by deluxe68

The video posted makes great sense but the Mustang foam vest does not have the capability of accepting a harness. At least nothing is listed on the Mustang web site. We have a few coastal inflatables with the West Marine brand, I would like to get something with an integrated harness for offshore.

The Salus Coastal was the one we found and is on the wish list for upcoming purchases.



http://www.salusmarine.com/?products=coastal

[ArmyDaveNY]

Originally Posted by robbievardon

It also helps protect the arm/shoulder joint when you land from 20ft,30ft,40ft drop. .

Although this thread has gotten a little off topic, the idea of dropping any significant distance is not really applicable to your typical sailor. One should always step up into their life raft or into the water. The idea is to stay with the boat until the very last minute since it is much more visible than a person in the water. Naturally, fire or an imminent explosion would logically be an exception (I would hope!). Dropping from a two or four foot freeboard should not be an issue.

Dropping from the heights you describe are situations a person on a tanker, ferry, VLCC, etc. might encounter but not likely unless you have a superyacht. Me, well I'm still waiting for my lotto retirement plan to kick in before I get a superyacht. Until then I will stick with my Dufours and their three foot drop.

[deluxe68]

Originally Posted by Macblaze

The Salus Coastal was the one we found and is on the wish list for upcoming purchases.



http://www.salusmarine.com/?products=coastal

Thanks for the link! I wish they were sold in more stores. They also have a cold weather suit with a built in harness.

http://www.salusmarine.com/?products=odyssey-series

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by robbievardon

Suijkin/Dockhead, first off I never said I support lifejackets without a crutch strap. It is a good idea, but like many things the simple solution can take years to arrive. If you happen to be unconscious you are hardly likely to jump overboard. Dockhead it may be
"ridiculous" to you,but if you look at old film footage you are unlikely to see crutch straps. The general idea was to pull the waist strap tight to keep you in the lifejacket,hands on the collar to stop the lifejacket being forced up by the pressure of hitting the water in a feet first.It also helps protect the arm/shoulder joint when you land from 20ft,30ft,40ft drop. I thought the idea of a forum was to pass around information and views not to be rude. Ultimately if you proceed logically then lifejackets should be custom made for each person.

Sory, no rudeness was intended, and apologies if any offense was given.

The word "ridiculous" was directed exclusively towards life jackets without crotch straps, not indeed towards any person.

And I do stand by that - in fact, I would say that a device whose whole purpose is to hold you up out of the water but which lacks any means to actually hold you up - whose system of straps is designed only to keep the device on you when you're walking on a dry surface, and not at all when you actually needed it - is worse than "ridiculous". It's in fact idiotic.

Like a lifeboat with a hole in the bottom of it. Imagine the maker of such a thing defending it by saying "what's the problem - you can bail it!"

Lifejackets without crotch straps kill people and should be banned, in my opinion. It's just like a parachute harness, with no crotch straps. "Sure, you can hang on!"

[barnakiel]

Yep. There is no such thing as a universally best pfd. The good news though is that the choice is immense and nearly everyone can find something that fits the way we do our boating.

To me, a well built harness, comfortable and light is the prime concern. A pfd is sort of like a liferaft - do have one, but avoid being in the situation where you may need it.

b.

[deluxe68]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

Yep. There is no such thing as a universally best pfd. The good news though is that the choice is immense and nearly everyone can find something that fits the way we do our boating.

To me, a well built harness, comfortable and light is the prime concern. A pfd is sort of like a liferaft - do have one, but avoid being in the situation where you may need it.

b.

Don't forget the importance of having a convenient jackline and the correct length tether. I was on one 44" charter sailboat out of San Francisco where the instructor had people tethering to the lifelines.