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Old 23-02-2015, 21:51   #76
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Re: Paint ball with pepper spray?

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Originally Posted by roygee View Post
Captain Fred, Peter Blake did not know how to use his firearm. The outcome could have been vastly different if he had been proficient in using his equipment.
Which is a lesson that should be emphasized. Owning a gun doesn't make you a gunfighter, any more than owning a torque wrench makes you a diesel mechanic.

When I worked for a federal agency, we went through months of firearms training and then practiced and qualified four times a year. Twice a year, additionally, we conducted force on force training with simmunition guns (real guns shooting non-lethal rounds). Every few years, we went back to the academy for additional firearms training.

And, even with all of that, we occasionally lost gun fights.

Guns, with proper training, are a useful tool, and probably the ultimate personal defense system. Without it, you might get lucky using one, and you might not.

But, self defense is just too personal an issue, for me to ever suggest what anyone else should do or not do. I'm just making some observations from a career where things sometimes happened.
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Old 23-02-2015, 22:19   #77
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Re: Paint ball with pepper spray?

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Originally Posted by handcrafter View Post
Your own experience doesn't match up with what Wasp and Hornet spray can do. Look at the ingredients, it's made up of nerve agent chemicals that are also caustic to eyes and lungs. There are many chemicals sold over the counter that have specific usage instructions and big warnings against being clumsy. Having said that, you could prove your case by posting a video of yourself taking a full can of spray unloaded in your face. However that worked out it would tell the story of whether Wasp & Hornet spray is fact or fiction for personal protection.
Do a search of this forum on your own. A couple of months ago a forum member did exactly what you suggested... by accident, shot himself right in the face with wasp spray trying to show his wife how to fire it. Said it didn't effect his vision at all, just gave him a raging headache about an hour later. So if you want to fight off an intruder by giving him a raging headache an hour after you've been robbed or killed, then by all means use the wasp spray... good luck. It's another myth just like the one about a flare gun. There's actually a video on youtube of some moron shooting himself in the head with a flare gun... it just bounced off and had the same effect as the wasp spray... gave him a headache and made him mad.
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Old 23-02-2015, 22:25   #78
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Re: Paint ball with pepper spray?

Here's the mariner myth buster youtube video of the idiot shooting himself with a flare gun in the head. Don't worry, he doesn't get hurt.... just a wicked headache when the flare bounces off his knucklehead:
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Old 23-02-2015, 22:34   #79
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Re: Paint ball with pepper spray?

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Originally Posted by Kenomac View Post
Do a search of this forum on your own. A couple of months ago a forum member did exactly what you suggested... by accident, shot himself right in the face with wasp spray trying to show his wife how to fire it. Said it didn't effect his vision at all, just gave him a raging headache about an hour later. So if you want to fight off an intruder by giving him a raging headache an hour after you've been robbed or killed, then by all means use the wasp spray... good luck. It's another myth just like the one about a flare gun. There's actually a video on youtube of some moron shooting himself in the head with a flare gun... it just bounced off and had the same effect as the wasp spray... gave him a headache and made him mad.
I've never heard of this 'wasp and hornet spray', can't be common here. But people have died from Capsican spray. And whilst I watched your video with the flare gun, I would not take that as proof that it's okay for someone I know or care about to try it. When I was a teenager a local kid killed himself by putting a firecracker in his mouth following a dare. It reportedly pushed one of his teeth into his brain.

Forrest Gump was right, Stupid is as stupid does.
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Old 24-02-2015, 00:29   #80
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Re: Paint ball with pepper spray?

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Originally Posted by crazyoldboatguy View Post
As has been posted elsewhere on CF, hornet spray can be quite noxious, and illegal. Pepper spray has its limitations, spear guns (except the Hawaiian sling type) are illegal in many places, as well as are flare guns.

It takes some time to wade thru all the "all ya gotta do is….." posts before we can get down to business.

It is possible to carry firearms legally - declare them when you enter. Hope that the port authorities accept your on board lock box, carry weapons that look non-military (no AR15s, AK47s, etc). A major exception is Mexico. Under NO circumstances carry a firearm into that country, declared or otherwise.

I'm sure I missed something. Oh, I forgot - "anyone who carries a firearm is an idiot".
I'd rather be a live idiot than a dead left wing pseudo intellectual. Please tell where it is illegal to have a flare gun on a boat. Also please let us know where it is illegal to have a spear gun on a recreational boat.
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Old 24-02-2015, 00:35   #81
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Re: Paint ball with pepper spray?

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I'd rather be a live idiot than a dead left wing pseudo intellectual. Please tell where it is illegal to gave a flare gun on a boat. Also please let us know where it illegal to have a spear gun on a recreational boat.
If you are talking about a Verey pistol or the like, these require weapons permits in most countries (outside the US). Verey pistols require permits in all (or at least most) european countries.

Spear guns, in many countries(outside the US), do sometimes also require a permit, and are certainly frowned upon in many others.
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Old 24-02-2015, 00:41   #82
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Re: Paint ball with pepper spray?

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I'd rather be a live idiot than a dead left wing pseudo intellectual. Please tell where it is illegal to have a flare gun on a boat. Also please let us know where it is illegal to have a spear gun on a recreational boat.
Flare guns are illegal in some places in Australia. I've heard some states you can obtain a gun license and permit for them, but I'm not sure if that's rumour.

Spear guns are fine.
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Old 24-02-2015, 06:07   #83
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Re: Paint ball with pepper spray?

Enter "spear gun" into the CF search engine (use the google option lower on the search engine box that appears) if you want to see the myriads of posts on that subject. You also can learn where flare guns are frowned upon by using the same search engine. This subject has been flogged aplenty so have at it.

Perhaps you didn't get my snarky attitude when I posted that owning guns was for idiots. I own several firearms and may decide to carry an appropriate self defense firearm when I go on my cruise. Just remember that while you can carry in many places, you must declare the weapon upon checking into a country. They may insist on holding the weapon during your stay (for more info on that, USE THE SEARCH ENGINE - I will not be giving details). What good, then, is your firearm then? In addition, if your firearm is desirable in any way, you may find that the weapon has mysteriously disappeared when you return to to retrieve it from the authorities. You will have little recourse but leave sans your firearm. You may return to retrieve your weapon only to find the ammunition has disappeared and your weapon appears to have been fired…..many times. Again, you will have little recourse.

You may be able to retain your weapon while in a particular set of islands within a country as long as you have an approved lock box (use the search engine) that must be permanently affixed to your hull. The authorities may well put a seal on the lock box and check same upon checking out. Little recourse exists if the seal is disturbed. If you use the firearm in self defense while in that country you may find that, even tho you were in the right, you may be in deep deep criminal **** (use the search engine).

So, the firearms you bring may well best be used while on the high seas. A pump action shotgun with 00 buckshot is of little value past 50 feet. By the time the bad guys get that close you are in deep deep ****. You may want a firearm that can keep the bad guys at bay. High powered rifles are difficult to aim on a moving vessel. Not impossible - just very difficult. Many folks in the military learn how to do this from helicopters but remember, they are using ammunition they don't have to pay for - and they use A LOT to get proficient and remain proficient. And, don't forget, when you check into a country and they find that very fine semi-automatic military looking high powered rifle with multiple, high capacity banana type magazines, on your vessel it may mysteriously disappear while in their possession, or it may enrage their sensibilities and they simply confiscate the weapon and you could be in some deep **** (use the search engine).

This issue has been flogged and flogged and flogged. Use the search engine before responding and attacking this writer - I learned most of this while reading the multiple, long, streams that are filled with personal attacks and useless, repetitive info posted by folks more interested in scoring political points than providing useful information.
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Old 24-02-2015, 06:21   #84
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Re: Paint ball with pepper spray?

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Originally Posted by Kenomac View Post
Do a search of this forum on your own. A couple of months ago a forum member did exactly what you suggested... by accident, shot himself right in the face with wasp spray trying to show his wife how to fire it.
Actually, that was me. Except it was my wife who accidentally sprayed me in the face with the stuff. Nasty and unpleasant, absolutely. Incapacitating? Not even close. Do not try to use wasp spray to stop an attacker. It will not stop them, and will probably only make them angry.

Personally, I prefer a squirt bottle full of ammonia. That stuff WILL incapacitate you (I have seen that, personally, also), and if the authorities ask questions, it is just a normal household cleaner.
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Old 24-02-2015, 06:26   #85
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Re: Paint ball with pepper spray?

Crazyoldboatguy: That is one of the most sensible and enlightening responses on the subject I've seen.

Especially the point you make that the only place you can actually use your 'gun' is in international waters because everywhere else you will be declaring it. I would imagine very little likelihood of any need for it then.

well done.
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Old 24-02-2015, 06:29   #86
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Re: Paint ball with pepper spray?

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Originally Posted by denverd0n View Post
Actually, that was me. Except it was my wife who accidentally sprayed me in the face with the stuff. Nasty and unpleasant, absolutely. Incapacitating? Not even close. Do not try to use wasp spray to stop an attacker. It will not stop them, and will probably only make them angry.

Personally, I prefer a squirt bottle full of ammonia. That stuff WILL incapacitate you (I have seen that, personally, also), and if the authorities ask questions, it is just a normal household cleaner.

I try to imagine using ammonia with a squirting device when you are downwind of your bad guy in a stiff breeze. Really could incapacitate…..you.
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Old 24-02-2015, 06:36   #87
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Re: Paint ball with pepper spray?

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Crazyoldboatguy: That is one of the most sensible and enlightening responses on the subject I've seen.

Especially the point you make that the only place you can actually use your 'gun' is in international waters because everywhere else you will be declaring it. I would imagine very little likelihood of any need for it then.

well done.

One last point - you may be able to have the weapon out of the lockbox in a particular country - some may chime in on that. It all depends on the country. The USA is one country where the right to keep and bear weapons is stronger than elsewhere. But local laws on the subject determine just what type you may keep and how/when you may bear. We travelled to Canada several times (North Channel, Ontario - Great Lakes) and just decided to not have any firearms aboard. Not even (or perhaps especially) my black powder signal cannon. You can bring long guns and shotguns with you but, for personal defense, I prefer handguns - Canada is very strict about handguns - they don't like pretty much all of them. I had some leftover fireworks on board from a previous July 4th celebration. I forgot about them. When I mentioned the forgotten black cats, the border agent quickly boarded my vessel saying all sorts of dire things. I showed them what I had and offered to surrender them on the spot. The kind gentleman said he couldn't take them and made me promise to secure them and NOT use them (and the charcoal briquettes I had in my lazerrete) during our stay. Oh, yes, the charcoal - I was told it was a banned incendiary.
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Old 24-02-2015, 08:09   #88
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Re: Paint ball with pepper spray?

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(and the charcoal briquettes I had in my lazerrete) during our stay. Oh, yes, the charcoal - I was told it was a banned incendiary.
death by BBQ, well we now know not to come to your boat for cookout

Meanwhile I'm always amazed on these threads the lengths people are willing to go though to be sure the guys boarding your boat are as pissed off as possible.
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Old 24-02-2015, 08:45   #89
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Re: Paint ball with pepper spray?

I would never carry a firearm into another country (But I'm Canadian). I would however fight off an attack by any means available, including flare gun, bomb lashed to an RC plane or sword if the other two didn't stop the attack at a distance.
And no I'm not talking about blowing the suckers outa da watta, just setting fire to their boat. That ought to distract them for a while.
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Old 24-02-2015, 08:56   #90
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Re: Paint ball with pepper spray?

If you're faced with a criminal who has a gun, there's a high probability that said criminal will use the gun if required. How does he determine if it's required?

If you pullout a piece, you will be shot at.

If you have a gun you have to be prepared to kill someone with it, because if you pull it out, the crim will certainly shoot you dead, if you don't kill him first. They have no choice...

If you miss with your pepper spray, you will be shot dead.

If you miss with your paintball gun, and even if you hit them, you will be shot dead.

If there is more than one person confronting you with a gun, you will be shot dead.

In close quarters a knife is as fast as a gun. But the guy with the gun doesn't know that.
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