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Old 22-02-2015, 10:36   #31
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Re: Paint ball with pepper spray?

Any of those are not legal in the EU.....
Even having a machete may give you grief if the authority's find it.
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Old 22-02-2015, 10:40   #32
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Re: Paint ball with pepper spray?

I do not engage much here but on this issue I can speak with some authority. I am a former Cop... SWAT cop. Pepper spray... no matter what the delivery system is notoriously unreliable as far as stopping power. Some individuals are immune to it completely:

"Capsaicin is an active component of chili peppers, which are plants belonging to the genus Capsicum. It is an irritant for mammals, including humans, and produces a sensation of burning in any tissue with which it comes into contact."

There are some other ingredients in some other sprays but police generally use a fairly concentrated form of the above. Some folks - it puts into immediate distress but others are able to fight on for a "long time" when exposed. Cops train to continue fighting after exposure. Some folks... it simply makes them angrier.
I would not recommend the use of Pepper spray as a deterrent regardless of the delivery system. Taser makes a personal weapon that is at the least the equivalent of the Police Unit. If you can afford it.. that would be better. However, in multiple aggressor situations... none of the above is very good.
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Old 22-02-2015, 10:40   #33
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Re: Paint ball with pepper spray?

I really had my doubts when this idea was originally suggested to me and I don't think it would be useful for armed pirates. Mabe fending of some young thugs. I knew the forum would strike up a good debate, but as the OP what I really was curious about is how the customs agents at other countries would view this form of protection.

The link to the Fox pepper spray was intriguing. Especially the pepper grenade that can be thrown probably has far as the paintball gun can shoot.
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Old 22-02-2015, 11:00   #34
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Re: Paint ball with pepper spray?

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Originally Posted by FilBrown View Post
Any of those are not legal in the EU.....
Even having a machete may give you grief if the authority's find it.
Long kitchen knife and a base ball bat close to your entry door can be grabbed and used giving the element of surprise when close in.
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Old 22-02-2015, 11:23   #35
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Re: Paint ball with pepper spray?

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Originally Posted by Duct Tape View Post
A flare in the face should probably buy you some time...
And what's about a strong blue or green laser to temporary dazzle an attacker?
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Old 22-02-2015, 11:29   #36
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Re: Paint ball with pepper spray?

i have had to use wildfire pepper spray at a range of about 20 feet ,, i did not hold the trigger down the full second as recommended just one little spurt but on the head enough to stop him in his tracks ,, it has 3,000,000 scofield units and you can even buy a 2 pound unit .. here in panama where home invasions are happening more often home owners keeps a can of wasp and hornet spray on hand i have 3 inside my home .. these spray a full 22 feet and will permanently blind the person if you spray a long burst directly in the face at close range ,, they must immediately seek medical attention ,, i still keep a 38 handy ,, on my boat i have ,, my pepper spray , wasp and hornet spray and my small spear gun handy ..
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Old 22-02-2015, 11:58   #37
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Re: Paint ball with pepper spray?

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Originally Posted by FilBrown View Post
Any of those are not legal in the EU.....
Even having a machete may give you grief if the authority's find it.
Spears, machetes, big scary knives and tomahawks are all legal in the EU, otherwise.... how would fisherman do their jobs?
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Old 22-02-2015, 12:02   #38
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Re: Paint ball with pepper spray?

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Originally Posted by svfraidknot View Post
i have had to use wildfire pepper spray at a range of about 20 feet ,, i did not hold the trigger down the full second as recommended just one little spurt but on the head enough to stop him in his tracks ,, it has 3,000,000 scofield units and you can even buy a 2 pound unit .. here in panama where home invasions are happening more often home owners keeps a can of wasp and hornet spray on hand i have 3 inside my home .. these spray a full 22 feet and will permanently blind the person if you spray a long burst directly in the face at close range ,, they must immediately seek medical attention ,, i still keep a 38 handy ,, on my boat i have ,, my pepper spray , wasp and hornet spray and my small spear gun handy ..
Why do multiple people always bring up the wasp and hornet spray myth on these threads? WTF? Just a sure way to really piss somebody off and put your life in more danger. Get a big ass knife, spear, machete or tomahawk and get the job done right.


I used to work with the wasp spray all the time when I was a house painter, it doesn't do anything like you describe.... "permanently blind the person"... yeah right.. what a joke. Like they're really going to sell a product at the local hardware store that some idiot can accidentally spray into their own eyes and permanently blind themselves. Just stop and think about it....
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Old 22-02-2015, 12:10   #39
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Re: Paint ball with pepper spray?

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................... Get a big ass knife, spear, machete or tomahawk and get the job done right ....
Again, you're going to bring a knife to a gunfight?
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Old 22-02-2015, 12:24   #40
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Re: Paint ball with pepper spray?

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Spears, machetes, big scary knives and tomahawks are all legal in the EU, otherwise.... how would fisherman do their jobs?
Yes, they are all legal but if you don't have good reason (and that does not include self defence) for the use of the axe, big knife, spear etc you may have a problem with the authority's.

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Old 22-02-2015, 12:56   #41
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Re: Paint ball with pepper spray?

Wasp Spray would NOT be my choice, if given a choice of something to deter or stop an assailant or end a confrontation in close quarters (e.g. a boat's cockpit).

snopes.com: Wasp Spray for Self-Defense?

http://urbanlegends.about.com/od/crime/a/wasp_spray.htm
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Old 22-02-2015, 14:01   #42
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Re: Paint ball with pepper spray?

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Originally Posted by Lastclipper View Post
I do not engage much here but on this issue I can speak with some authority. I am a former Cop... SWAT cop. Pepper spray... no matter what the delivery system is notoriously unreliable as far as stopping power. Some individuals are immune to it completely:

"Capsaicin is an active component of chili peppers, which are plants belonging to the genus Capsicum. It is an irritant for mammals, including humans, and produces a sensation of burning in any tissue with which it comes into contact."

There are some other ingredients in some other sprays but police generally use a fairly concentrated form of the above. Some folks - it puts into immediate distress but others are able to fight on for a "long time" when exposed. Cops train to continue fighting after exposure. Some folks... it simply makes them angrier.
I would not recommend the use of Pepper spray as a deterrent regardless of the delivery system. Taser makes a personal weapon that is at the least the equivalent of the Police Unit. If you can afford it.. that would be better. However, in multiple aggressor situations... none of the above is very good.
As a former cop myself I'd agree with this. BUT with a slight difference. When someone is dealing with 'police' or carrying out a heightened illegal activity their adrenalin is high. It's this boost in adrenalin that makes the spray ineffective and I've even seen someone sprayed who was resisting arrest go right off after being hit with spray. Also if someone is on speed or ice, it seems to have little impact. Keep in mind it's illegal to even have the stuff in Australia.
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Old 22-02-2015, 14:09   #43
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Re: Paint ball with pepper spray?

If your travelling to Australia, keep in mind that capsican spray is illegal in all states. Paint Ball guns are illegal in just Tasmania, down south.

Some states, Tasmania for example, it is illegal to have in your possession a concealed weapon of any kind, and this includes machetes, kitchen knives, pocket knives, axe, tomahawk, even fishing knives. Obviously, these can be purchased in any store, but you can't walk down a public street with even a pocket knife in your pocket. If you get search for whatever reason you can and most likely will be charged. If your holding a machete in your hand when another boat approaches you, or start waving it around threatening people, you can expect to be arrested for it.

If you enter Australia anywhere, you must declare your weapons. Oddly enough whilst military style weapons are illegal everywhere in Australia, as long as you declare them and and can safely store them on your boat, you may be permitted to keep it locked up until departing. As long as you declare it, it's not unlawful for visitors. If your a local and you declare it, your in deep ****.

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Old 22-02-2015, 15:27   #44
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Re: Paint ball with pepper spray?

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Originally Posted by Suijin View Post
The only thing more dangerous than carrying a gun is carrying something that looks like a gun but isn't.
This is absolutely true. You can wind up shot and killed because someone thought you had a real gun, including by military or law enforcement. You can also wind up in a foreign jail somewhere. Many countries specify that "any device that fires a projectile" is considered an illegal weapon, never mind that it is designed to be less-lethal.

Also, the "'pepper balls" available to civilians are even less effective than what law enforcement has. As a cop, we used CS, which is military grade stuff, but still not always effective against an aggressor who is any one or more of the following: well trained, highly motivated, used to CS spray, drunk, high on drugs, mentally ill or wearing safety goggles or even regular glasses. This is even more true for "pepper" (capsaicin) spray, you can add to that list anyone who is used to eating lots of really spicy foods. I got sprayed with this stuff all the time during training and in the field, and while it stings and turned my eyes red, it would have never deterred me from doing anything.

We used to call this stuff "Liquid Jesus", because anytime you spray someone, they'd say "Jesus". It tends to get everywhere, including on the person who sprayed or shot it, and depending on that person's sensitivity, can be more debilitating to them than the "bad guy".

In other words, I cannot recommend this in any way.
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Old 22-02-2015, 15:53   #45
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Re: Paint ball with pepper spray?

FWIW at least CS tear gas has been available in 40 mm grenades and I believe 12Ga shells for a very long time.
Since I doubt any of us carry either an M-79 or M-203, the 40 mm grenade is probably out, and I assume the 12ga version requires a 12ga shotgun to fire it, so if you have a shotgun, why load it with CS?

I'm not sure you could get either round as a civilian, just pointing out that "riot" control gas has been delivered by firearms for a very long time, and I feel pretty sure at least some of it has a dye that isn't washing off.

Not a bad idea actually, just I bet most authorities would treat a paintball gun as a firearm.

I have two Ocean Rhino spearguns, one set up for free shafting, close in weapon for sure, but I wouldn't want to be shot with a spear gun, especially with a powerhead on it. I bet they would probably be looked at the same way as a firearm by many authorities too.

Nobody has brought up a "bang stick", but one of those would be real effective at close range, and I'm sure be classified as a firearm.


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