Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 02-01-2009, 13:36   #31
Registered User
 
Stillraining's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Puget Sound
Boat: Irwin 41 CC Ketch
Posts: 2,876
[quote=GordyMay] or you could just accept the freely offered advice of "internet experts" like I & others.[/Qoute]

Yep I notice I drive 38 in a 35 now and again too..Cops just let me go right through their radar gun...Im glad to know some of you are experts and able to keep within that law as well...

Carry on
__________________

__________________
"Go simple, go large!".

Relationships are everything to me...everything else in life is just a tool to enhance them.
Stillraining is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2009, 14:12   #32
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Anchorage, Alaska
Boat: Newport 28
Posts: 136
Wandering off topic, but.....

Previous posters said:
"The event included using fire extinguishers, heaving lines, and igniting smokes."
and
"just as important as knowing how to manualy inflate their vest IMHO."

I was lucky enough to get to actually put out a small fire at another employer sponsored safety class. They mixed some diesel with a very small amount of gasoline in a meter square metal pan and let each of us put it out with a hand held fire extinguisher. It was valuable experience to learn just how little range and volume those extinguishers have. Had I not had this opportunity, it would have been worthwhile to find a way to "test" my extinguishers when they are due for recharge.

We seem to be wandering a bit off the topic of flare disposal. However, there are some valid points to be made. There is no substitute for hands on experience, whether it is with trimming sails or using safety devices. Ideally, one gets the opportunity to practice with emergency gear in a fully legal way. Sometimes that is difficult to do, because of rules and regulations. Some of us (with a bit of pirate spirit) occaisionaly flaunt the rules. Provided we do that very carefully so no one gets hurt, and discretely so that we don't incite less carefull people to try it, I don't think that is a bad thing.

A quote from the Oregonian newspaper on Dec 19, 2006 sums it up:
"Yet in times of crisis, ĎPeople donít rise to the occasion. They default to their training.í That line has been attributed to Rick Rescorla, the soldier-turned-security officer who saved the lives of all but six of the 2,700 Morgan Stanley employees in the World Trade Center on Sept. 11, 2001. Other firms that hadnít conducted the disaster drills Morgan Stanley had lost scores of employees in the terrorist attacks."
__________________

__________________
Alaska: We're here, because we're not all there!
AK_sailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2009, 14:37   #33
Registered User
 
Stillraining's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Puget Sound
Boat: Irwin 41 CC Ketch
Posts: 2,876
I should have posted this here instead of the other Flare thread...

I dont recommend this method of disposal.....then again.....

__________________
"Go simple, go large!".

Relationships are everything to me...everything else in life is just a tool to enhance them.
Stillraining is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2009, 12:04   #34
Registered User
 
Unicorn Dreams's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Clear Lake Marine Services - Seabrook, Texas
Boat: Gulfstar, Mark II Ketch, 43'
Posts: 2,359
Thats why when you call the USCG or any other so-called government official. you record the conversation to cover your a@@. In Texas, as in a lot of states but not all, only 1 person has to know the call is being recorded, and I'm that person..
__________________
Formerly Santana
The winds blow true,The skies stay blue,
Everyday is a good day for SAILING!!!!
Unicorn Dreams is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2009, 18:37   #35
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: CT
Boat: Formula Thunderbird 26
Posts: 11
As noted in several previous posts the USCG can and does authorize groups to do old flare shoots and itself routinely carries out training shoots with red flares as well as white illumination flares from both stations and small boats as well as cutters at sea. As for authorizing individuals to do so I do not know as I have never personally seen it authorized. On a side note USCG policy now requires it to investigate flare sightings of any color as distress cases (not just red as it had been previous policy).

As for disposal some police or fire departments will take expired flares along with some household hazardous disposal sites
and USCG stations, I have even heard of some boat stores doing it your best bet is to call ahead and check to see.
__________________
niteflite1287 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2009, 20:16   #36
Moderator Emeritus
 
David M's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: San Francisco Bay
Boat: research vessel
Posts: 10,152
You can light off emergency signals for training purposes, BUT, you must make arrangements with the Coast Guard well ahead of time. They will put a Pan Pan out on the radio right before your event. I have done this for a boating course I teach occasionally.

As Gord said, if you don't do this you are breaking the law.

Give your old flares to the Sea Scouts or other organizations that teach boating. They could probably use some for training.
__________________
David

Life begins where land ends.
David M is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2009, 07:38   #37
Registered User
 
RBEmerson's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: SE PA
Boat: Baba 35 - One With The Wind
Posts: 392
I wouldn't donate flares to anyone for use in training. It's just not worth the risk exposure.
__________________
S/V One With The Wind
'85 Baba 35
"You and I may agree, but we could both be wrong."
RBEmerson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2009, 07:41   #38
cruiser

Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: No longer post here
Boat: Catalac Catamaran
Posts: 2,462
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunspot Baby View Post
Once a year, our yacht club coordinates with USCG and we have a day of practicing with old flares. I don't think I have seen one fail, even some very out of date ones.

Gives practice and disposes of old flares.

George
I did the same thing and discovered the same thing. Flares out of date by 5-10 years worked 90% of the time.

Actually, it was kind of fun.
__________________
Tropic Cat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2009, 09:40   #39
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Raleigh, NC
Boat: 1974 Columbia 41
Posts: 91
Images: 1
When I was in the USCG, we would discharge hundreds of them, red, green, white, what have you, while on board a boat a few hundred miles from land. No big deal, and it wasnt "some enlisted guys" making the call, it was a full bird captain, on multiple ships. Legality is in the eyes of the enforcer. I would say if an officer at your small boat station gives you the O.K. you should be fine. Send out a notice on the radio too. A flare is just to let people know you are in distress, if people know you are not in distress, whats the harm?
__________________
stoupidmonkey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-2009, 08:15   #40
Senior Cruiser
 
sandy daugherty's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2008
Location: near Annapolis
Boat: PDQ 36 & Atlantic 42
Posts: 1,178
I should have mentioned that we have held flare and fire training every year since S.O.S's inception in the early 70's. There are literally thousands of past and present members who know what it feels like to shoot off a 12 ga flare, fire an orange smoke and put out a fuel fire. Its organized, authorized, and of late the only way to get rid of expired 'ordinance' in Maryland. We have seen 22 year old shotgun flares fire successfully, and one year out of date handheld rockets dud out.

Similar traning is held annually at the Naval Academy as part of the Safety At Sea Seminars, but only a few people get to pull the triggers.
__________________
sandy daugherty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-2009, 09:09   #41
Registered User
 
RBEmerson's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: SE PA
Boat: Baba 35 - One With The Wind
Posts: 392
There is simply no substitute for "live fire" exercises with flares and other pyrotechnics. Watching someone else pull the trigger is like training to play in the NFL by watching TV.

That said, there is also no doubt that having the chance to practice is constrained by the nature of what's being done. Resolving the two needs is the hard part.
__________________
S/V One With The Wind
'85 Baba 35
"You and I may agree, but we could both be wrong."
RBEmerson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2009, 06:52   #42
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Kingston, Ontario
Boat: Saugeen Witch, Colvin design vessel name: Witchcraft
Posts: 383
Images: 14
Safe disposal of flares has always been a problem around here, no agency seems to want to take it on. This leaves many boaters wondering what to do. We always keep a few outdated flares separately packaged. My theory is in an emergency I will fire outdated ones first, then newer ones. The local power and sail squadron receives dispensation once a year to fire flares. What a lot of paper work that excercise is!!!!
RCMP seems a good choice. Will try that one next time. Thanks Gord for the info.
Fair winds
SV Witchcraft
__________________
witchcraft is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2009, 09:10   #43
Registered User
 
RBEmerson's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: SE PA
Boat: Baba 35 - One With The Wind
Posts: 392
Agreed on the strategy of "use old stuff first". Sorta. It depends on the circumstances - is this "well, let's just put something up in hope of being spotted" or "we gotta get that plane's attention now!"? If it's the latter, I'd go with the new flares, recognizing that even new stuff isn't 100% certain to fire but the odds are better than with older flares. Maybe.
__________________
S/V One With The Wind
'85 Baba 35
"You and I may agree, but we could both be wrong."
RBEmerson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-07-2009, 05:27   #44
Moderator Emeritus
 
GordMay's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario - 48-29N x 89-20W
Boat: (Cruiser Living On Dirt)
Posts: 31,584
Images: 240
OPP and Transport Canada Flare Disposal program

Boaters with expired marine flares may drop them off, from August 1 to 8, 2009, at any of the 165 Ontario Provincial Police detachments.

More info' ➥ http://windsor.cps-ecp.org/OPP_FlareDisposal.pdf
__________________
Gord May
"If you didn't have the time or money to do it right in the first place, when will you get the time/$ to fix it?"



GordMay is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2013, 13:27   #45
Head in a locker
 
Cavalier's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Houston, TX
Boat: Beneteau 461 47'
Posts: 879
Images: 1
Re: Old Flare Disposal

Quote:
Originally Posted by GordMay View Post
Do NOT believe ANYONE, no matter how official appearing, that tells you that you can discharge a distress flare legally - YOU CANNOT!!!

The discharge of a visual distress signal is illegal, except in case of actual distress.

The discharge of expired flares is potentially dangerous.


Evan officially sanctioned flare training sessions generally use WHITE flares, not (red) visual distress signals.

Orion has cooperated with many States and Provinces, in sponsoring safe disposal of expired flares. In Canada, the RCMP collects the flares, for controlled destruction at Orionís facility.

To safely dispose of expired flares:

* Contact your local public works or sanitation department to see if they'll accept flares on special household hazardous waste collection days.

* Contact local boating groups (Power Squadron, etc) to see if they accept flares for use in demonstrations or classes.

* Contact your local police or fire department to see if they can use old flares or dispose of them in burn units.
So my oldest son (3) just came across 2 more outdated [2003] parachute-type flares hidden away in a nook on our boat today - he has a knack for finding anything remotely hazardous which has escaped the attention of the adults..

..I took the flares to WestMarine's Clear Lake Shores store (who used to take them) to be told that WestMarine never takes in old flares.. ok, fine.. what worried me more, however, was that they then went on to explain that they usually give them to the scouts for practice!

"You give age-degraded pyrotechnics to the scouts to play with?", I ask.
"Sure! why not!?" they responded..

..a gentlemen stood behind me at the kiosk stated that he never throws out old flares as "they just might work".. and when's the best time to discover whether they work or not?

We eventually took them to the fire-department for disposal who were suitably horrified when told about the scout's training methods..

I've placed a list of our various flares next to our maintenance schedule so we have some oversight over which ones are nearing old-age (think USCG inspection) and where they are located on the vessel: being a prudish Brit I tend to treat them with the same respect as ammunition....
__________________

__________________
"By day the hot sun fermented us; and we were dizzied by the beating wind. At night we were stained by dew, and shamed into pettiness by the innumerable silences of stars."
Cavalier is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Ever Shot a Flare Gun at Something? sww914 Health, Safety & Related Gear 75 20-07-2009 08:48
Flare Gun, flares and smoke flare on a plane? sgtPluck Health, Safety & Related Gear 3 27-08-2008 18:16
Flare Regulations spaceballs Monohull Sailboats 1 15-04-2008 12:17
FLARE RECALL ~ Pains Wessex GordMay Health, Safety & Related Gear 0 22-12-2006 04:40
Flag Disposal Knottygirlz Rules of the Road, Regulations & Red Tape 5 14-08-2006 06:55



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:29.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.