Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 28-03-2015, 06:37   #1
Moderator
 
Dockhead's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Cowes (Winter), Baltic (Summer) (the boat!); somewhere in the air (me!)
Boat: Cutter-Rigged Moody 54
Posts: 19,750
MOB Procedures

I'm doing a complete revision of all my safety gear and procedures as part of getting ready for my big summer cruise.

I always thought I knew everything I needed to know about MOB procedures, but in trying to formulate a written procedure for my boat, I realized that I know a lot less than I thought (story of my life), and that there is no universally agreed procedure. In fact, there are a number of controversial points. Worth discussion on here, I think. It seems to me that the main issues are:

1. Quick stop, sail a figure 8, or reach-reach. Various maneuvers are suggested. It seems to me that the paramount consideration should be getting the boat stopped NOW, in order to minimize distance between you and the casualty. So under sail, I would simply put the helm over IMMEDIATELY, putting the bows through the wind and leaving the headsail sheeted on the wrong side. Like this, I can go from making way at 9 knots to hove to and stopped in just a few boat lengths. Any reason to do it any other way?

2. Approach the casualty from leeward or windward. There are different opinions on this. I always thought you would approach from windward so that you make a lee for the casualty -- far easier to get him from the leeward side, and he won't be bashed into the topsides by waves. But there seems to be a lot of opinion that the boat could run over the casualty, if you approach that way in rough seas. What do you guys think?

3. Various means of getting him out of the water. I always thought I would use the boom and a tackle. Preventer out the boom so that you are raising the casualty well away from the sides, so that you don't bash him into the sides. A parbuckle seems slow to rig up, and you can't afford this time in the cold water around here. Besides that, the casualty ends up right against the side, which seems to me to create the risk of a bashing. What do you guys think?


And in general, here's the first draft of my procedure:


Man Overboard Procedures

1. If you see a shipmate go overboard, all of the following must be done immediately:
a. Shout “Man Overboard!” to alert the whole crew.
b. Point at the casualty and keep pointing; do not let him out of your sight.
c. Immediately throw liferings, Danbuoy, any cushions, orange smoke towards the casualty (orange smoke is in the cockpit table).
d. Press the MOB button on the helm plotter.
e. The helmsman stops the boat immediately and simultaneously with these other measures. Under sail, immediately tack through the wind leaving the headsail backed. Motoring, immediately put the machine in astern and give power in astern until all way is off.

2. Helmsman starts to maneuver towards the casualty, approaching from windward. Ordinarily sails are furled and the approach is made under power, but depending on the point of sail, the approach may also be made under sail. Under power, great care must be taken not to overrun the casualty or get any ropes in the propeller.

3. Rig the preventer and the MOB tackle (kept in the cockpit table) to the boom end, and preventer out the boom end to leeward, even if you do not intend to use this method first. Open the lifeline gates on the leeward side and put down the boarding ladder. Prepare another rope with a bowline at the end for a step.

4. Throw the Life Sling to the casualty when near enough. Casualty should put the sling around his abdomen.

5. Very slowly haul the casualty towards the leeward side of the boat. Be careful not to drag him underwater.

6. Put the machinery in neutral with the main engine running. If the machinery is used to maneuver with the casualty in the water close by, be extremely careful that the casualty does not get under the boat or into the propeller.

7. If the casualty is vigorous and sea is not too rough, put the prepared bowline in the water under the boarding ladder, with the loop about 50cm below the water surface, with one end made off to a cleat and the other on the primary sheet winch. Have the casualty attempt to step into the loop and climb onto the boarding ladder and help him climb aboard. Carefully assist him with the winch, if necessary, once his foot is in the loop.

8. If the casualty is not vigorous and/or the sea is rough, haul the casualty out of the water using the MOB tackle attached to the lifesling. Very carefully haul in the boom, controlling it with the preventer around a winch, swinging the casualty over the lifelines.

9. If the sea is very rough, launch the life raft and help the casualty into the raft by hauling on the lifesling.
__________________

__________________
Dockhead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-03-2015, 07:04   #2
Eternal Member
 
monte's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Australia
Boat: Lagoon 400
Posts: 3,650
Images: 1
Re: MOB Procedures

Looks good DH. I'd consider turning under power rather than stopping. Also consider radioing a mayday, which can be cancelled easily enough once the crew is safe.
One question I'd like opinions on is how the dan buoy or life ring is secured or not secured and the use of the 30m or so of floating line attached. Do people plan to throw the whole lot overboard and possible use the floating line to assist retrieval, or do some make off the bitter end? We usually practice MOB under power first day we have new crew (with a fender)
__________________

__________________
monte is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-03-2015, 07:15   #3
Senior Cruiser
 
Kenomac's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Somewhere in the Adriatic Sea
Boat: Oyster 53 Cutter
Posts: 8,515
Re: MOB Procedures

You should follow the procedure recommended by Lifesling, it works.
1. Maintain a visual
2. Immediately come about sheeting in both sails but don't touch the jib sheet and allow it to back wind.
3. Deploy the Lifesling
4. Sail in a circle around the MOB without touching the jib.
5. Let the Lifesling reel in the victim.
6. After the victim MOB has the Lifesling, stop the boat.

It works. Had my MOB and his DOB (dog over board) back on the boat in less than 4 minutes. Happened while sailing alone alone and under full sail at 7 knots. What an adrenaline rush...

DH, there's no time for all your steps, it happens in an instant. If you follow the Lifesling method, you'll have the MOB back on before you can initiate most of them.
__________________
Kenomac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-03-2015, 07:21   #4
Freelance Delivery Skipper..
 
boatman61's Avatar

Community Sponsor
Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: UK/Portugal
Posts: 20,210
Images: 2
Send a message via Skype™ to boatman61
pirate Re: MOB Procedures

Taking the alarm and proceedures there for granted..
Under motor; hard over in the direction of the side he falls over.. minimise fouling prop with legs and stuff..
circle and approach from down wind with around 45* beam to the waves.. minimises time 'head' disappears behind sea's.. meanwhile crew tie foot of storm sail to toe rail and connect head to the end of boom..
pass him around 3metres down wind of the bow and if concious throw a line.. engine neutral then walk it aft and start pulling in as the boat falls off the wind, assist up ladder/swim platform and away you go again....
If unconcious go round again with boom/sail ready to swing out fast.. same approach but this time swing the boom out and drop the sail into the water as you close, use the b/hook to hold down the leading edge then hook the casualty onto the sail.. once in the belly haul the line to the head and as the sail comes up it rolls the casualty gently toward the boat all the way to the life lines..
Under sail depends on point of sail.. but same line or sail methods the 'Boom' methods out.. it can however still be done using the toppinglift/spinnaker line.. tho you'll need someone to go in the water to get the casualty into the sail..
But basically its sail to a position where heaving to on the opposite tack will let you forereach close to but downwind of the casualty.. if unconcious.. swimmer in and round again with sail ready for dropping in the water.
My reasoning for approaching downwind are simple.. better boat control.. better visibility on approach.. also if the boats lifted by the sea its thrown away from the casualty whereas if upwind the sea's may well lift the boat over and down onto the casualty in the water.
On a calm day however.. whatever...
Not necessarily the Right Way..

__________________


Born To Be Wild
boatman61 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-03-2015, 07:25   #5
Senior Cruiser
 
skipmac's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: 29° 49.16’ N 82° 25.82’ W
Boat: Pearson 422
Posts: 12,383
Re: MOB Procedures

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenomac View Post
You should follow the procedure recommended by Lifesling, it works.
1. Maintain a visual
2. Immediately come about sheeting in both sails but don't touch the jib sheet and allow it to back wind.
3. Deploy the Lifesling
4. Sail in a circle around the MOB without touching the jib.
5. Let the Lifesling reel in the victim.
6. After the victim MOB has the Lifesling, stop the boat.

It works. Had my MOB and his DOB (dog over board) back on the boat in less than 4 minutes. Happened while sailing alone alone and under full sail at 7 knots. What an adrenaline rush...
From years of waterskiing I can confirm that sailing a circle around someone in the water is a quick, simple and easy method to get a line to them.
__________________
The water is always bluer on the other side of the ocean.
skipmac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-03-2015, 07:40   #6
Moderator
 
Dockhead's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Cowes (Winter), Baltic (Summer) (the boat!); somewhere in the air (me!)
Boat: Cutter-Rigged Moody 54
Posts: 19,750
Re: MOB Procedures

Really interesting and useful comments from everyone, thanks!

Phil, I am a little confused by your terminology -- you mean approach the casualty from downwind, right? So that he is upwind of you?

One of the terrifying things, which I haven't quite gotten my head around, is how to avoid killing the casualty by bashing him against the boat in a rough sea. I know for sure I would never try bringing him in at the stern, at least not in my boat with the overhanging counter. But won't he tend to be bashed into you, if he's to windward with no lee? I'm struggling to see how to avoid this bashing from either side, and you'd kill him if there's a hard enough collision. This seems to be a major challenge doing this in rough weather.

One of the advantages of lifting from the preventered-out boom with a tackle, as opposed to using a parbuckle, is that you can keep some distance between him and your topsides. But if he's unconscious and unable to clip himself into the tackle, this won't work.

I don't have a ready parbuckle; I guess I would have to strike the staysail down on deck and use that, which will take time and be fairly difficult in a rough sea. It's the size of the genoa on a 38 foot boat, so it's also larger than ideal. I really don't quite visualize how I would do this. Recovery of an unconscious MOB in a rough sea seems to be pretty much a nightmare scenario.

Ken, what a useful story. Wow. Have you posted the details? How did it happen?

So you and Skipjack are recommending getting the Lifesling in the water -- when you are nearby and along side the casualty, I presume -- and motoring in circles around him, to get the line to him. Yes, that's what the instructions on the Lifesling say. I'll keep that in mind. Thanks.
__________________
Dockhead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-03-2015, 08:06   #7
Senior Cruiser
 
Kenomac's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Somewhere in the Adriatic Sea
Boat: Oyster 53 Cutter
Posts: 8,515
Re: MOB Procedures

Here's the Lifesling video. If undersail, DON'T use the engine. The chances of fouling your prop or chopping up your MOB will be increased if you do so. It's easy on front of our computers to say that we'll remember to put the transmission in neutral when approaching the MOB under power, but with the adrenaline rush of the MOB situation, it's way too easy to leave it in forward or reverse gear.
__________________
Kenomac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-03-2015, 08:18   #8
Senior Cruiser
 
Kenomac's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Somewhere in the Adriatic Sea
Boat: Oyster 53 Cutter
Posts: 8,515
Re: MOB Procedures

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
Really interesting and useful comments from everyone, thanks!

Ken, what a useful story. Wow. Have you posted the details? How did it happen?

So you and Skipjack are recommending getting the Lifesling in the water -- when you are nearby and along side the casualty, I presume -- and motoring in circles around him, to get the line to him. Yes, that's what the instructions on the Lifesling say. I'll keep that in mind. Thanks.
No, that's not how the Lifesling works. Watch the video.

K.I.S.: Keep It Simple. Don't complicate things with lots of steps.


NOTE: My wife and I practice saving boat fenders at the beginning of each cruising season in order to refresh our memory on the MOB procedure. It's much harder to safe a fender than to save a person.
__________________
Kenomac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-03-2015, 08:56   #9
Registered User
 
Hydra's Avatar

Join Date: May 2009
Location: Lorient, Brittany, France
Boat: Gib'Sea 302, 30' - Hydra
Posts: 1,229
Re: MOB Procedures

I did a few MOB recovery experiments a few years ago. Twice, I was the MOB, in smooth sea.

As my friends were not so proficient in the beginning, the boat stem came straight on me at a good speed. When in range, it was easy to catch the stem with both hands and push sideways. I felt that the risk of bashing my head was negligible. Of course, I was conscious!

In a seaway, I would approach the MOB on a close reach, aiming to get him on the lee side because it is lower, the boat gives some shelter to the MOB and the drift of the boat without headway would prevent separation. I feel that the relative swaying motion of the boat and a floating object in the water isn't large.

On the contrary, if keeping the MOB on the windward side, I would fear that a breaking wave slams him on the hull.

Alain
__________________
Hydra is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-03-2015, 09:39   #10
Registered User
 
Steady Hand's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Crewing All of 2017 Available Globally
Boat: OPB = Crewing in 2017
Posts: 4,851
Re: MOB Procedures

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenomac View Post
You should follow the procedure recommended by Lifesling, it works.
1. Maintain a visual
2. Immediately come about sheeting in both sails but don't touch the jib sheet and allow it to back wind.
3. Deploy the Lifesling
4. Sail in a circle around the MOB without touching the jib.
5. Let the Lifesling reel in the victim.
6. After the victim MOB has the Lifesling, stop the boat.

It works. Had my MOB and his DOB (dog over board) back on the boat in less than 4 minutes. Happened while sailing alone alone and under full sail at 7 knots. What an adrenaline rush...

DH, there's no time for all your steps, it happens in an instant. If you follow the Lifesling method, you'll have the MOB back on before you can initiate most of them.
First, I think this is a very good topic for discussion on the forum.

But I also suggest that the topic title for the thread be amended to say: ''MOB Procedures Man Overboard" in order to be found if someone does a search for "man overboard."

________________________

I have read all of the comments so far.

I agree with the above post (by Kenomac).
__________________
Ahoy All Sailors! Need experienced crew for a passage or delivery in Atlantic, Pacific, Caribbean, Med, PNW, ICW, coastal or across an ocean anytime in 2017? I am available on 24hr notice. See my CF Profile "About Me" page for details. Happy to lend a hand!
Steady Hand is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-03-2015, 09:42   #11
Senior Cruiser
 
skipmac's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: 29° 49.16’ N 82° 25.82’ W
Boat: Pearson 422
Posts: 12,383
Re: MOB Procedures

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenomac View Post
No, that's not how the Lifesling works. Watch the video.

K.I.S.: Keep It Simple. Don't complicate things with lots of steps.


NOTE: My wife and I practice saving boat fenders at the beginning of each cruising season in order to refresh our memory on the MOB procedure. It's much harder to safe a fender than to save a person.
I see my post wasn't very clear. Definitely not circle(s). Pass the person in the water, do a 180 and pass by them on the other side so more like a half circle.

If conditions or situation indicate you can pull a line up to someone in the water by sailing towards one side of the person, alter course to pass on the other side of them, make a half loop and straighten out again. Something like this ------v-------

By the way, I am only addressing the issue of bringing a line up to someone in the water. I am reading this thread closely to learn the best way to get back to the MOB. So far sounds like the best method is tacking directly back towards the person.

But what if you're flying a sail with a pole like a genoa or drifter/reacher with a whisker pole? I could envision a big mess on the foredeck doing a fast tack.
__________________
The water is always bluer on the other side of the ocean.
skipmac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-03-2015, 10:06   #12
Moderator
 
weavis's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: SEVILLE - MALLORCA
Posts: 10,137
Send a message via Skype™ to weavis
Re: MOB Procedures

Thanks Dockhead for the thread.
Ken has shown me Ive been doing it wrong all this time.

Ive been using this method.

__________________
- Never test how deep the water is with both feet -
10% of conflicts are due to different opinions. 90% by the tone of voice.
Raise your words, not your voice. It is rain that grows flowers, not thunder.
weavis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-03-2015, 10:06   #13
Senior Cruiser
 
skipmac's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: 29° 49.16’ N 82° 25.82’ W
Boat: Pearson 422
Posts: 12,383
Re: MOB Procedures

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hydra View Post
I did a few MOB recovery experiments a few years ago. Twice, I was the MOB, in smooth sea.

As my friends were not so proficient in the beginning, the boat stem came straight on me at a good speed. When in range, it was easy to catch the stem with both hands and push sideways. I felt that the risk of bashing my head was negligible. Of course, I was conscious!

In a seaway, I would approach the MOB on a close reach, aiming to get him on the lee side because it is lower, the boat gives some shelter to the MOB and the drift of the boat without headway would prevent separation. I feel that the relative swaying motion of the boat and a floating object in the water isn't large.

On the contrary, if keeping the MOB on the windward side, I would fear that a breaking wave slams him on the hull.

Alain
Doing some real world trials like this I think are absolutely essential.

Just make sure you start with a disposable cushion in case the first tests don't work out.
__________________
The water is always bluer on the other side of the ocean.
skipmac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-03-2015, 10:22   #14
Senior Cruiser
 
jackdale's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Calgary, AB, Canada
Posts: 5,048
Images: 1
Re: MOB Procedures

I think I posted this before. It is the MOB used by International Sail and Power.



Advantages
a) It can be done easily by one person.
b) There is usually no need to adjust sails.
c) The sails are always under control. There are no flying clews or sheets.
d) The MOB is always on the same side of the vessel and kept in sight.
e) If unsuccessful, just come around again.
f) The MOB can be reached on most vessels by lying on the deck and grabbing them. (I retrieved a TV antenna off Cape Scott in this manner.)
g) Works exceptionally well with a life-sling.

Downwind MOB under sail.

Same steps as used by most other standards :

1)get some distance,

2)come about, sheet the sails in.

3) sail back close reach / close haul but maintain a couple of boat lengths between vessel and MOB.

4) rather than a windward pick-up, wait until the MOB is off the quarter, heave-to and drift in as above.
__________________
ISPA Yachtmaster Ocean Instructor Evaluator
Sail Canada Advanced Cruising Instructor
IYT Yachtmaster Coastal Instructor
ASA 201, 203,204, 205, 206, 214
As I sail, I praise God, and care not. (Luke Foxe)
jackdale is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-03-2015, 10:24   #15
Senior Cruiser
 
Kenomac's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Somewhere in the Adriatic Sea
Boat: Oyster 53 Cutter
Posts: 8,515
Re: MOB Procedures

Quote:
Originally Posted by skipmac View Post
I see my post wasn't very clear. Definitely not circle(s). Pass the person in the water, do a 180 and pass by them on the other side so more like a half circle.
We're on the same page. Sailing a circle around the MOB ends up looking more like what you describe and draws the lifesling towards the MOB just like your waterskiing example.

The video demonstrates the technique. Jackdale's diagram is excellent, just envision a line towed behind the boat with a lifejacket (lifesling) attached and how it will automatically ensnare the MOB. The Lifesling is not intended to be a throwing device, it's unweighted so it can only be deployed in that manner... basically tossed off the stern and the 100ft of line allowed to deploy on it's own. Never a good idea to toss stuff at the MOB, much better to draw a line and float towards them and be ready to stop the boat when they're able to grab the float.
__________________

__________________
Kenomac is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
mob

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Single-handed Docking Procedures sneuman Seamanship & Boat Handling 95 24-06-2013 17:59
Repair Procedures - Fiberglass Hull Blisters Bernie Eskesen Construction, Maintenance & Refit 15 14-10-2011 14:23
MOB Procedures markpj23 Seamanship & Boat Handling 103 06-04-2011 14:48
Immigration Procedures antonk Off Topic Forum 5 28-01-2008 09:40
New docking procedures--Oooops delmarrey The Sailor's Confessional 4 02-07-2005 06:57



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 00:33.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.