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Old 30-07-2015, 11:24   #121
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Re: MOB Procedures

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Originally Posted by Kenomac View Post
Yeah right....

There're plenty of dumbasses out there who do stupid sh&t. What are you going to do... Leave them adrift when they fall overboard, then.... stand there like a dumbass yourself while everyone looks at you for a solution? All because you don't have a MOB procedure in place and well-drilled, but instead... decided to focus on prevention?

Brilliant.
I do believe that Evan is saying you need to have both preventative measures and MOB procedures. An once of prevention .............
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Old 30-07-2015, 11:26   #122
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Re: MOB Procedures

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An once of prevention .............
Nice that someone gets it
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Old 30-07-2015, 11:48   #123
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Re: MOB Procedures

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^^ well that post is sure in keeping with CF's "be nice" policy.

I will simply ask if you have already done all the simple things one can do to help prevent MOB. There are tons I rarely see . . . . Let me just mention a couple. (1) have you anti skid tape EVERYWHERE that is slippery, like on top of hatches. (2) have you lifeline netting so people can't slide between/under the life lines (3) Have you foot chocks at the main deck work stations so people can have secure footing when heeled. (4) do you in fact in your crew briefing focus on "always always one hand for yourself" (5) do you Have truly continuous hand grips on deck with no gaps?

If you have not done these things and a hundred other simple things but instead had focused on recovery, then you have not maximized the safety of your crew.

Edit . . . And I simply don't sail offshore double handed with dumbasses
I think I have all this stuff. I just added the netting this spring. Love it, I even like the aesthetics. My only complaint is sometimes it gets sucked into the block on my Genoa sheet.

I agree- keep your arms and legs inside the ride at all times. While having procedures that mitigate the effects of a MOB is good, having procedures that prevent an MOB will be far more effective. Chances of survival in the water, even under ideal circumstances aren't very good.

I have a friend who lost a paying customer earlier this spring, his careers pretty well finished as a result, hopefully he still has a house by the time all is said and done.

Sent from my XP7700 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app
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Old 30-07-2015, 12:17   #124
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Re: MOB Procedures

Kenomac. I would respectfully disagree, partially, with your comments regarding this procedure being to long. The brief one above misses too many key actions for most sail boats and would run into mayhem for the unacquainted. The MOB procedure infolves a sequenced number of tasks to be properly executed and these should each be listed out, clear and concisely. And trialed for each boat to ensure it works for each. The essence being to get the victim out of the water ASAP. Practising your procedure via your defined steps perfects the method and then revising where necessary. If an individual or group becomes so confident with the steps, then a shortened version can be considered.


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Old 30-07-2015, 12:30   #125
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Re: MOB Procedures

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Originally Posted by Emerald Sea View Post
Kenomac. I would respectfully disagree, partially, with your comments regarding this procedure being to long. The brief one above misses too many key actions for most sail boats and would run into mayhem for the unacquainted. The MOB procedure infolves a sequenced number of tasks to be properly executed and these should each be listed out, clear and concisely. And trialed for each boat to ensure it works for each. The essence being to get the victim out of the water ASAP. Practising your procedure via your defined steps perfects the method and then revising where necessary. If an individual or group becomes so confident with the steps, then a shortened version can be considered.


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Steve,

Let me place a fly in your ointment. Have you ever personally experienced a MOB situation leaving you to deal with the situation all alone whilst under full sail traveling at hull speed in choppy seas away from the victim... or in my situation... the fool and his dog. Or more appropriately.... the dog and his fool?

I can tell you from personal experience... the adrenaline rush is one for the record books. If you don't have just five or six easy steps memorized and well-planned out and rehearsed in advance... Your MOB will quickly turn into a Coast Guard body recovery situation.

The situation gets dumped on you in a split second, there's no time to read off a check list. Your mind and body need to react automatically and very quickly. Within just a few seconds... you're 50-100 meters from the MOB and loosing visual contact.

It's OK to disagree, but first, please tell me about your personal experience in the same situation in order to qualify your recommendations.

Thanks.

Ken
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Old 30-07-2015, 13:21   #126
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Re: MOB Procedures

This is the upwind procedure I use:



There is no need to touch the sails or turn on the engine.

I have never has a real MOB (lots of prevention), but my crew did retrieve a lost TV antennae off Cape Scott in choppy seas. I also picked up a life ring in 22 knot winds and choppy seas in Johnstone Strait.
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Old 30-07-2015, 13:23   #127
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Re: MOB Procedures

Kenomac. Briefly, my experience: I've been in the marine industry for 35 years, much of it related to HSE, sailed yachts for most of those years, presently live on, sail our yacht and just crossed the Indian Ocean. I also understand adrenaline rushes from tragic experiences being a commercial diver during this time and survived these by understanding the step-by-steps to be taken that have derived from detailed procedures, not short cutted ones. I have not had a MOB however should one occur, I'm confident our procedure is well defined, understood and practiced (we do an exercise bi-annually or when we have new crew in addition to reviewing it when on passage).

You would know, as well as I do, there are a defined number of tasks involved in a MOB. I believe you successfully managed your experience because you well understood each of these steps and thus were able to act quickly and accordingly.

For the sake of readers here, many of which haven’t our experience, its prudent to prepare/practice a more detailed step by step (what works for them), and if one should decided later on, whittle it down as one becomes so familiar with it; but I still would not endorse that. The life saving MOB procedure is one you don’t want to shortcut.

Id rather the people on my boat are very clear as to exactly what's expected of them in the event of a MOB. It may be me!
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Old 30-07-2015, 13:31   #128
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Re: MOB Procedures

My MOB procedure is to think "bugger" and wave my boat good bye as it sails off alone
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Old 30-07-2015, 13:34   #129
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Re: MOB Procedures

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Originally Posted by jackdale View Post
This is the upwind procedure I use:



There is no need to touch the sails or turn on the engine.

I have never has a real MOB (lots of prevention), but my crew did retrieve a lost TV antennae off Cape Scott in choppy seas. I also picked up a life ring in 22 knot winds and choppy seas in Johnstone Strait.
I was taught to heave too & start the motor. Whilst remaining heaved too, to use the motor to move the boat forward or backwards so that it drifts onto the "target". It also means that you can look 100% at the MOB.

It worked in practice with a fender at least
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Old 30-07-2015, 14:25   #130
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Re: MOB Procedures

Quote:
Originally Posted by Emerald Sea View Post
Kenomac. Briefly, my experience: I've been in the marine industry for 35 years, much of it related to HSE, sailed yachts for most of those years, presently live on, sail our yacht and just crossed the Indian Ocean. I also understand adrenaline rushes from tragic experiences being a commercial diver during this time and survived these by understanding the step-by-steps to be taken that have derived from detailed procedures, not short cutted ones. I have not had a MOB however should one occur, I'm confident our procedure is well defined, understood and practiced (we do an exercise bi-annually or when we have new crew in addition to reviewing it when on passage).

You would know, as well as I do, there are a defined number of tasks involved in a MOB. I believe you successfully managed your experience because you well understood each of these steps and thus were able to act quickly and accordingly.

For the sake of readers here, many of which haven’t our experience, its prudent to prepare/practice a more detailed step by step (what works for them), and if one should decided later on, whittle it down as one becomes so familiar with it; but I still would not endorse that. The life saving MOB procedure is one you don’t want to shortcut.

Id rather the people on my boat are very clear as to exactly what's expected of them in the event of a MOB. It may be me!
Steve,

Thanks for getting back to me. Your method works for you, ours for us. People can learn from both. I will tell you the adrenaline rush from suddenly being responsible for someone else's life, far exceeded the same rush I got when a grand piano once fell on me. The super human strength and mental focus one gets resulting from the rush is unreal.

I was able to lift the 700 pound piano off myself when the other fellow panicked... He thought I was dead. During the MOB, I furled in the wind-filled Genoa on a 45ft Hunter without using a winch in about 20 seconds. Unreal. But boy, was I sore the next day.

I actually believe my near death experience involving the grand piano is why we live the way we do today. But for a very small flower pot stopping the piano from crushing me, I would have died 15 years ago. Prepare for the worst... Live every day as if it's your last. Spend as little time with nasty, hateful people as possible, there are plenty of nice people... outside New England :-)

Ken
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Old 30-07-2015, 14:27   #131
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Re: MOB Procedures

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Originally Posted by jackdale View Post
This is the upwind procedure I use:



There is no need to touch the sails or turn on the engine.

I have never has a real MOB (lots of prevention), but my crew did retrieve a lost TV antennae off Cape Scott in choppy seas. I also picked up a life ring in 22 knot winds and choppy seas in Johnstone Strait.
We use the same method of sailing to the MOB with the Lifesling.
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Old 30-07-2015, 15:01   #132
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Re: MOB Procedures

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Originally Posted by Kenomac View Post
Way too many steps. It should read as ours does...

1.Leave sails alone.

2.Throw Lifesling

3. Turn left (not port or starboard KISS)

4. DONT TOUCH THE SAILS

5. Circle MOB

6. Reel in Lifesling when MOB grabs it

7. Make sure engine remains in neutral during entire procedure, unless no sails were up at the time of MOB

That's it, been there... Done that. The adrenaline rush will prevent anyone from following your list. Some which doesn't make sense.

Purchase a Lifesling, read the directions and practice. KISS

Don't waste time messing with the radio until you've at least spent five minutes trying the above. The MOB will probably be dead by the time help arrives if you do.
I like this, but I would probably insert a step someplace that says hit the MOB button on the chartplotter. If at night, and just the two of you, can be difficult to keep up with exact location of the MOB.
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Old 30-07-2015, 15:07   #133
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Re: MOB Procedures

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I like this, but I would probably insert a step someplace that says hit the MOB button on the chartplotter. If at night, and just the two of you, can be difficult to keep up with exact location of the MOB.
That's a good idea. On the extremely rare occasion we sail at night, both of us are tethered in to the cockpit. Going forward is a no no unless tethered to the Jacklines. PFD always at night even when in the cockpit, Personal EPIRB device on the one (me) who heads forward.

BTW, we don't use a traditional helm chartplotter. IPads, PC, paper charts, GPS, cellphones... So we don't have a functional MOB button on the helm. Probably have one on the chartplotter program, but it would waste too much time finding it.
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Old 30-07-2015, 15:34   #134
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Re: MOB Procedures

To the OP,

One morning when you go out for a sail with your good lady, ASK her if she will help you practice man overboard drills. Use a floating cushion. Take turns recovering it. There are many ways to sail the boat to a person in the water, but where there are only two, the heave-to method which allows the helmsman to keep an eye on the victim makes a lot of sense. Assure yourselves that both of you can do this. She will likely enjoy learning a new skill. And yourself, you will have some needed backup.

Practice, so that your memory takes over for you and you don't have to try and read instructions when you're full of adrenalin.

When we've guests aboard, part of briefing them is to appoint one to be spotter, but you really can't count on them to do it. Practicing with the cushion teaches them how hard it is to keep your eyes on the single object.

If I were taking someone on an ocean passage, short-handed, I think the starzinger method is best, really.

Where Dockhead and some others sail, people don't have much in-the-water time at all, and then you've got the hypothermia to deal with.

My two cents' worth.

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Old 31-07-2015, 05:34   #135
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Re: MOB Procedures

I wrote this on another thread, but it is appropriate here. These were experienced sailors - no newbies

To bring this into the real world. A week ago a Danish couple were sailing from RIga to Tallin. The weather turned rougher than they had expected and they sought towards harbour.

He went on deck to take down the mainsail when a freak wave threw him overboard (no lifeline, no PFD).
His wife got the boat turned and line out to him and he made his way to the back of the boat and started climbing up the bathing ladder when the bottom rung broke and he was tossed back into the waves. He manged to haul himself back to the boat and started climbing the ladder again when the second rung broke, tossing back into the ocean again. He didn't have enough strength to try it a third time and his wife was unable to help him and as a result he drowned.

The wife had called mayday but the rescue boat didn't show up until it was too late.
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