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Old 31-03-2015, 04:04   #61
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Re: MOB Procedures

Dockhead,

The keys to saving someone lie in planning (have a checklist and have tried it) and practice, practice practice. My wife and I practice singlehand MOB every year at the start of the season. The reason we practice singlehand is that generally we are the only ones on the boat and if one of us goes overbard then there is only the other one to save them.

rigging an block and tackle from the boom end takes a lot of time and effort, and unless you are many on baord, one person cannot do all these things alone without losing sight of the MOB.


I agree with throwing floating stuff overboard - it will help find the MOB.

We have a MOB net on board. Imagine a very large and powerful fishing net with a stout handle and a long line.

This is the only way to get an unconscious person back on board if you are alone. You can literally "net" him, get the line on a winch and drag him up to the boat.

If the person is conscious they can either grab hold of the ring or crawl into the net.


As konomac (I believe) said, after only a couple of minutes in the water, your MOB will not be of any help whatsoever - he is on the way to hypothermia. If he is fully clothed (foulies etc) he can't help you either. The net removes most of thsoe problems

The net is made by a guy in Esbjerg Denmark. I'm in Portugal right now and I don't have his web adress, but I will post on this thread when I get back next week.
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Old 31-03-2015, 05:27   #62
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Re: MOB Procedures

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Originally Posted by carstenb View Post
Dockhead,

The keys to saving someone lie in planning (have a checklist and have tried it) and practice, practice practice. My wife and I practice singlehand MOB every year at the start of the season. The reason we practice singlehand is that generally we are the only ones on the boat and if one of us goes overbard then there is only the other one to save them.

rigging an block and tackle from the boom end takes a lot of time and effort, and unless you are many on baord, one person cannot do all these things alone without losing sight of the MOB.


I agree with throwing floating stuff overboard - it will help find the MOB.

We have a MOB net on board. Imagine a very large and powerful fishing net with a stout handle and a long line.

This is the only way to get an unconscious person back on board if you are alone. You can literally "net" him, get the line on a winch and drag him up to the boat.

If the person is conscious they can either grab hold of the ring or crawl into the net.


As konomac (I believe) said, after only a couple of minutes in the water, your MOB will not be of any help whatsoever - he is on the way to hypothermia. If he is fully clothed (foulies etc) he can't help you either. The net removes most of thsoe problems

The net is made by a guy in Esbjerg Denmark. I'm in Portugal right now and I don't have his web adress, but I will post on this thread when I get back next week.

Something like ?
Markus Lifenet Ltd (iceland) - Markus Mob Boat Rescue-net Mbr and Other Product Gallery
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Old 31-03-2015, 05:51   #63
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Re: MOB Procedures

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Originally Posted by carstenb View Post
Dockhead,

The keys to saving someone lie in planning (have a checklist and have tried it) and practice, practice practice. My wife and I practice singlehand MOB every year at the start of the season. The reason we practice singlehand is that generally we are the only ones on the boat and if one of us goes overbard then there is only the other one to save them.

rigging an block and tackle from the boom end takes a lot of time and effort, and unless you are many on baord, one person cannot do all these things alone without losing sight of the MOB.


I agree with throwing floating stuff overboard - it will help find the MOB.

We have a MOB net on board. Imagine a very large and powerful fishing net with a stout handle and a long line.

This is the only way to get an unconscious person back on board if you are alone. You can literally "net" him, get the line on a winch and drag him up to the boat.

If the person is conscious they can either grab hold of the ring or crawl into the net.


As konomac (I believe) said, after only a couple of minutes in the water, your MOB will not be of any help whatsoever - he is on the way to hypothermia. If he is fully clothed (foulies etc) he can't help you either. The net removes most of thsoe problems

The net is made by a guy in Esbjerg Denmark. I'm in Portugal right now and I don't have his web adress, but I will post on this thread when I get back next week.
Car,

I'm guessing you could use the Net to parbuckle as well.

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Old 31-03-2015, 06:48   #64
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Re: MOB Procedures

Getting them back on board, I like the net and any way to winch them aboard. Rope ladders are useless, your toes end up smashed against the undersides, where they cant grip the rungs. Even the 'Jacob's ladder' style with standoffs leave you with 90% of the effort on your arms. Maybe you can get the MOB in the dinghy and then up.

Hypothermia. I've heard that here in Southern California, it's three hours in the water and then you're dead. There are three stages, with things to do and not do about each. You can save someone from the ocean, get them back aboard fully conscious, then give them a heart attack. So it's probably a good time to look up hypothermia and CPR too.
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Old 31-03-2015, 07:09   #65
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Re: MOB Procedures

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Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
I'm doing a complete revision of all my safety gear and procedures as part of getting ready for my big summer cruise.
When i was teaching we used the following.

If sailing upwind.
1 Bare away to a beam reach for two-three boat lengths
2 gybe
3 return path two boat lengths downwind of the MOB
4 Once directly downwind of the mob point straight up into the wind to stall the boat and recover.

If sailing upwind.

1 Bear up. to a beam reach for two three boat lengths.
2 gybe
3 return path two boat lengths downwind of the MOB
4 Once directly downwind of the mob point straight up into the wind to stall the boat and recover.

All of the above includes.
Throwing a flotation device/danbouy
Having a pointer (if you have enough crew)
Pushing the mob button.
Furling the genoa (if you have enough crew)
Prepping a recovery line

But all of that is totally useless unless its actually practiced over and over.
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Old 31-03-2015, 07:17   #66
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Re: MOB Procedures

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But all of that is totally useless unless its actually practiced over and over.

Did you ever practice with a real person?


That would be the acid test, I think. I always thought it would be far too risky, but if you give the "victim" a manually-activated MOB beacon and a radio, and you do it say in the Solent close to shore and rescue services, and if you have another boat to stand by and observe -- I would think it would be acceptably safe, and incredibly valuable for all concerned.
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Old 31-03-2015, 07:31   #67
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Re: MOB Procedures

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Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
Did you ever practice with a real person?
DH,

Are you volunteering for the job?

Come on over here to Sardegna this June, we'll practice on you. I even have a survival suit for you to wear in case we get it all wrong the first few times.


I think it's best to practice with a fender, why endanger someone and create a disaster? 54ft yacht bouncing around in the waves, volunteer banging up against the hull.... that is if you don't chop him up first trying the get the engine and prop stuff right.
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Old 31-03-2015, 07:34   #68
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Re: MOB Procedures

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Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
Did you ever practice with a real person?


That would be the acid test, I think. I always thought it would be far too risky, but if you give the "victim" a manually-activated MOB beacon and a radio, and you do it say in the Solent close to shore and rescue services, and if you have another boat to stand by and observe -- I would think it would be acceptably safe, and incredibly valuable for all concerned.
It's a lot safer to have one of your crew lay low, and throw an extra life vest overboard to rescue instead. After the drill is over, we'll sometimes reward ourselves by trailing a line and letting everybody take a swim.
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Old 31-03-2015, 09:59   #69
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Re: MOB Procedures

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Originally Posted by Claude_Marie View Post
similar although the one we have is really much more like a very large fishnet.
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Old 31-03-2015, 10:53   #70
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Re: MOB Procedures

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Originally Posted by Kenomac View Post
DH,

Are you volunteering for the job?

Come on over here to Sardegna this June, we'll practice on you. I even have a survival suit for you to wear in case we get it all wrong the first few times.


I think it's best to practice with a fender, why endanger someone and create a disaster? 54ft yacht bouncing around in the waves, volunteer banging up against the hull.... that is if you don't chop him up first trying the get the engine and prop stuff right.
Practicing with a fender we do, like everyone does. It's good practice for finding and maneuvering to the victim, even if the fender doesn't respond to wind the same way as a person.

But that doesn't help you with practicing other aspects: (a) getting the victim out of the drink, a real person; and (b) being the victim.

Yes, I'd like to try this both as the person overboard, and picking up a real person. I think it would be incredibly valuable. It would involve some risk, but really good training in a dangerous activity cannot be without risk. I would just about take that risk if there were other boats standing by to observe, spot, and help if necessary, and if I or any other "victim" had an AIS beacon just in case. And in an inshore area with rescue services nearby in case God forbid. But yes, I would really like to try this.

I think Yachting Monthly did this last year -- had several of their staff actually "fall" off a boat, and recovered them. They had a RIB standing by with a couple of trained rescuers, IIRC. I think it's a terrific idea.
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Old 31-03-2015, 11:17   #71
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Re: MOB Procedures

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Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
Practicing with a fender we do, like everyone does. It's good practice for finding and maneuvering to the victim, even if the fender doesn't respond to wind the same way as a person.

But that doesn't help you with practicing other aspects: (a) getting the victim out of the drink, a real person; and (b) being the victim.

Yes, I'd like to try this both as the person overboard, and picking up a real person. I think it would be incredibly valuable. It would involve some risk, but really good training in a dangerous activity cannot be without risk. I would just about take that risk if there were other boats standing by to observe, spot, and help if necessary, and if I or any other "victim" had an AIS beacon just in case. And in an inshore area with rescue services nearby in case God forbid. But yes, I would really like to try this.

I think Yachting Monthly did this last year -- had several of their staff actually "fall" off a boat, and recovered them. They had a RIB standing by with a couple of trained rescuers, IIRC. I think it's a terrific idea.
I'll be in the Baltic this summer. Should we run into one another, I'd do a practice with you.

The only issue i have with practicing with a real person, is that it's still not the same as in an emergency, when it may be practical to take more risks.

Also I'm not sure what the conclusion was about approaching the MOB downwind, the the MOB must be upwind of the boat. For the person concerned about the waves flinging the MOB into the boat. What do you think will happen if the boat is upwind? the winds will push the 20K+ lb boat on top of the MOB. That's a little worse situation.
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Old 31-03-2015, 11:31   #72
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Re: MOB Procedures

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Also I'm not sure what the conclusion was about approaching the MOB downwind, the the MOB must be upwind of the boat. For the person concerned about the waves flinging the MOB into the boat. What do you think will happen if the boat is upwind? the winds will push the 20K+ lb boat on top of the MOB. That's a little worse situation.
In my experience, if you are downwind of the MOB, the boat is pushed away from the MOB. If you are upwind and hove-to the boat is pushing water which keeps the MOB away from the boat. As well, the boat is sheltering the MOB from wind and wave if the boat is upwind. If you are downwind you will need to luff the sails, that means swinging booms and flying clews. Hove-to and upwind the sails are under control.
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Old 31-03-2015, 11:53   #73
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Re: MOB Procedures

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In my experience, if you are downwind of the MOB, the boat is pushed away from the MOB. If you are upwind and hove-to the boat is pushing water which keeps the MOB away from the boat. As well, the boat is sheltering the MOB from wind and wave if the boat is upwind. If you are downwind you will need to luff the sails, that means swinging booms and flying clews. Hove-to and upwind the sails are under control.
Thanks Jack,

It's nice to know I did something right on that infamous day.... purely by accident of course. After getting the MOB and DOB in the Lifesling, I brought the boat into the wind and hove to. The re-boarding was made easy with the sugar scoop and boarding swim ladder that we had on the Hunter and now on the Oyster.


I've tried to board the boat via the sugar scoop without the swim ladder before, and even with the help of another person, couldn't get myself back on the boat, it was impossible and I only weigh 145 lbs (66 kilos). Something else to consider when planning a practice rescue.
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Old 31-03-2015, 11:54   #74
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Re: MOB Procedures

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Did you ever practice with a real person?


That would be the acid test, I think. I always thought it would be far too risky, but if you give the "victim" a manually-activated MOB beacon and a radio, and you do it say in the Solent close to shore and rescue services, and if you have another boat to stand by and observe -- I would think it would be acceptably safe, and incredibly valuable for all concerned.
I have practised a lot with real people, especially in my Coast Guard SAR days, both as victim and rescuer. Always in immersion suits (I've done Halifax Harbour in March and Summerside ferry terminal in February). I never felt comfortable with using real people. I never saw the reward outweighed the risk. The practice stopped when I had enough bars on my shoulders to make my own decisions.

I would encourage people if they really want to try recovering real people then to do it at anchor and wear a life jacket.

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Old 31-03-2015, 12:31   #75
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Re: MOB Procedures

I suppose we could separate the practising in 2 stages:
- manoeuvring the boat to come alongside the MOB, done with a dummy in the water
- recovering the MOB, done at anchor with a real person, clad in a wetsuit or an immersion suit.

Of course, the recovery wouldn't exactly replicate the real thing, since the boat motions and the flogging sails wouldn't be there.

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