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Old 28-03-2015, 10:33   #16
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Re: MOB Procedures

Dockhead,

Your No. 1 and Jackdale's.

Have used it to retrieve everything BUT a MOB, but it works. Anything else is way too complicated.

Sometimes if you time it right, you don't even have to go back past the victim, but can drift down on them with enough maneuverability to have them on the windward (safer) side, without sailing but still be in the original hove to position, no gybe necessary.
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Old 28-03-2015, 10:48   #17
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Re: MOB Procedures

I don't want to sound like some kind of expert or know it all, just want to tell folks what works and what doesn't work coming from someone who's been in the situation before and had to act alone.

If someone falls in fully clothed, don't count on them being any help. They'll usually be so panicked, they'll have their mind only focused on staying afloat. If you stop the boat immediately, it accomplishes nothing... the MOB will be too far away for you to throw stuff and unable to swim to the boat. Just try this with a fender sometime.... won't work.

Instead, the boat needs to keep moving and maneuver towards the MOB with a line attached in a safe manner just like the way a power boat picks up a water skier.


Using the Lifesling method, you can have the MOB in the sling and tethered to your boat, in less time than most competent people can initiate a mayday and give the authorities their location, details, etc.
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Old 28-03-2015, 15:18   #18
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Re: MOB Procedures

The Life Sling method is almost foolproof and easy for any crew (even less experienced) to remember, deploy, and use. I think this "easy and simple" method is the best.

As I see it, all other methods depend on more skills (e.g. maneuvering closer to the MOB, heave to), more strength (e.g. manhandling a person up or using a hard to climb boarding ladder) and more risk, especially in seas.

One point: I would pick up the MOB on the windward side of my boat, as I think that is safer for the MOB.

Here is a page on the RORC website that has very good step-by-step instructions on using the Quick Stop method of using the Life Sling with very good illustrations.

I highly recommend viewing this page. In my opinion, it is the very best explanation of what one should do.
Man Overboard | general-conditions

And here is the official "Life Sling Manual" that also has illustrations and step by step instructions for either sail or power boats.
http://lib.store.yahoo.net/lib/landf...ing3Manual.pdf
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Old 28-03-2015, 16:20   #19
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Re: MOB Procedures

For those that haven’t seen it, the Final Report from the 2005 Crew Overboard Rescue Symposium makes interesting reading – see the Tables of Maneuver Contact Times (page 36).

http://www.ussailing.org/wp-content/..._Symposium.pdf
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Old 28-03-2015, 17:01   #20
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Re: MOB Procedures

I think your procedures are pretty good DH. Far too few people take their procedures seriously enough, I think this is a great discussion. I've had the good fortune to experience several unplanned MOB's- all with power driven boats. Because of my very power boat heavy experience, I would definitely tend to want to perform the rescue under power- however- that's just me.


Recently, I had a great opportunity to spend a week doing MOB training on a 70 foot power boat with 4 or 5 other professional skippers. we performed our "rescues" in varied conditions, including wind and strong currents. Over the week we recovered, combined fenders, dumbies and real people in survival suits- had to have been 40 or 50 times.


I really can't speak to recovery techniques using the sails/boom with as much authority as many more experienced sailors on here. I can definitely speak to approach under power. I think the discussion between upwind/downwind approach is a little bit misleading, because I would recommend a combination of the two.


Under power, approach stemming the wind placing the PIW fine on either bow. At about 30-50 yard STOP. Stop your boat, Plan your approach- this is where you have an opportunity to quickly asses set and drift on both the PIW and your boat, which will be different. Current will make the PIW drift faster, wind will make the boat drift faster. This will also, give your crew person an opportunity to rig your retrieval device. It also gives every one the chance, to take a deep breath and calm down.


Finally you will proceed, PIW still on Port or Starboard side. Once close, say 5-10 ft, wheel away from the PIW, about 30 degrees, then swing your bow towards them. This double course alteration should scrub your speed and allow the bow/midships to fall down on him, allowing you to get him alongside. So I would say your approach is both upwind and down wind- the maneuver is fluid.


A good way to practise this maneuver is to station keep alongside a buoy in a wind or current and practise- landing the buoy alongside at your reboarding station. Don't forget neutral if the poor guy starts to get too close.
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Old 29-03-2015, 09:39   #21
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Re: MOB Procedures

I feel like I should expand on the upwind down wind comment in case it isn't clear. When approaching you can use just enough engine to station keep alongside/parallel to the PIW.

In my scenario we turned first away from the PIW, then towards, that might be oversimplifying the case a bit though.

The point is its a controlled approach. If you want to increase the rate of closure you increase the wind deflection angle, if you want to decrease the rate of closure, decrease the deflection angle. If you want to stop or move away from the PIW (maybe to let a breaking sea pass), you reverse the deflection angle.

This should be a very fluid and controlled maneuver, there's no reason you can't land him square in the middle of your rescue station every time. If you want to give him a lee from breaking seas, just angle the bow as much as necessary, don't turn beam to the seas.

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Old 29-03-2015, 12:16   #22
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Re: MOB Procedures

Which side if the boat should the MOB be picked up on? The RORC guide specifies the windward side. This is what I was taught many years ago. I can still remember asking the question of my instructor at the time. I was snapped at in a raised voice implying I asked a stupid question. "UPWIND ALWAYS". I never dared to ask why and I still don't know why he was so firm. Actually I think he is wrong. I think it depends.

If the boat is lurching, rolling and violently moving downwind with the waves I can see it is dangerous for a casualty to leeward. If the boat's movement is not hazardous then it will be easier and therefore better to pick the MOB off the leeward side of the boat as it will not be blowing away from him. This issue becomes even more relevant if the MOB is not capable of holding a line or in attaching himself to a lifeline. It may be impossible to get a hold of him with the boat being blown away so it may be better to accept more risk of injury. Solo,the boundary gets moved further. In calm water the swim platform is best.

Is all this correct?
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Old 29-03-2015, 13:42   #23
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Re: MOB Procedures

I think the most important is to know where your MOB is.

You can only find someone when you know where, EXACTLY, they are.

MARK YOUR MOB.

Preferably with as advanced method as you can.

Preferably with more than one method.

Remember many long cruising passages are downwind passages.

The preventer will be set.

You may be carrying a kite.

You are likely not going to be able to turn round immediately.

You will be unable to turn round and find your MOB unless you have exercised this in all conditions, especially running with sizable seas in gale like conditions.

This is when your MOB will get their OB.

1. Mark your MOB,
2. Exercise your MOB maneuvers,
3. Exercise your MOB maneuvers again,
4. And again.

If you are the only competent driver aboard, DO NOT become a MOB: stay always tethered to the boat. Becoming a MOB is like catapulting yourself from a jet fighter. Your only chance of survival is carrying a satellite PLB and adequate evening suit (neoprene or dry).

Children, do stay onboard,
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Old 29-03-2015, 13:54   #24
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Re: MOB Procedures

Quote:
Originally Posted by poiu View Post
Which side if the boat should the MOB be picked up on?

The RORC guide specifies the windward side.
It is very hard work to drag anything up the windward topsides in any seas going: the water level varies dramatically, the waves bash the object against the hull, and so on&forth.

Most people who got themselves back onboard did so via the lee (low, protected) door.

Which year were the RORC written? For what type of crew?

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Old 29-03-2015, 14:01   #25
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Re: MOB Procedures

I think the primary arguments for picking up the MOB on the windward side:

1. It's better for the MOB to drift towards the boat; not for the boat to drift on top of the MOB

2. When the MOB is rescued on the windward side, the crew and/or rescue equipment on the windward side will tend to keep the boat more upright than if all the weight is shifted to the leeward side - especially on a smaller boat.

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Old 29-03-2015, 14:31   #26
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Re: MOB Procedures

I would rather avoid using as a standard a procedure that requires gybing: I have been on boats that cannot be gybed safely without sheeting in the mainsail hard, and it takes a few minutes because the mainsheet circuit isn't well designed: too much friction, wrong body position to operate the winch.

I think that a boat (power or sail) drifts faster on the water than a person with only the head above water. Keeping in mind that we often sail short-handed, I find this a good reason for keeping the MOB on the lee side: contact will be maintained.

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Old 29-03-2015, 16:59   #27
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Re: MOB Procedures

Quote:
Originally Posted by OldFrog75 View Post
I think the primary arguments for picking up the MOB on the windward side:



1. It's better for the MOB to drift towards the boat; not for the boat to drift on top of the MOB



2. When the MOB is rescued on the windward side, the crew and/or rescue equipment on the windward side will tend to keep the boat more upright than if all the weight is shifted to the leeward side - especially on a smaller boat.




Must be a monohull I guess which raises another point...bringing the person on board will vary on the boat design. The obvious choice for anything with decent transom access is to bring them there. To clarify the lifesling approach, do you first throw a dan boy or horseshoe buoy with a light before using the lifesling? I'd hope throwing a floating object would be the first thing all of us would do, but perhaps not so important if the mob has a lifejacket with strobe light on. I imagine if at night my crew went over without a lifejacket on, probably throwing a lifejacket with strobe and sart would give both crew and vessel something to aim for. But our plan remains to throw the horseshoe buoy, strobe and 30m line all in the water and retrieve the mob via the line or directly on ten transom steps. Approaching from downwind seems sensible and most likely as barni pointed out, were usually heading downwind. My instructions are to douse the kite, start the engines and motor back along the track.
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Old 29-03-2015, 17:12   #28
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Re: MOB Procedures

Quote:
Originally Posted by monte View Post
Must be a monohull I guess which raises another point...bringing the person on board will vary on the boat design. The obvious choice for anything with decent transom access is to bring them there. To clarify the lifesling approach, do you first throw a dan boy or horseshoe buoy with a light before using the lifesling? I'd hope throwing a floating object would be the first thing all of us would do, but perhaps not so important if the mob has a lifejacket with strobe light on. I imagine if at night my crew went over without a lifejacket on, probably throwing a lifejacket with strobe and sart would give both crew and vessel something to aim for. But our plan remains to throw the horseshoe buoy, strobe and 30m line all in the water and retrieve the mob via the line or directly on ten transom steps. Approaching from downwind seems sensible and most likely as barni pointed out, were usually heading downwind. My instructions are to douse the kite, start the engines and motor back along the track.
The transom is a death-trap with a sea running.
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Old 29-03-2015, 20:29   #29
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Re: MOB Procedures

This is all very interesting, personally I carry a Life Sling.

Now DH, once you get this written up I look forward to the discussion on MOB in the dark. Many years ago I had a sailing instructor tell me stand at the rail and wave goodbye. This is why after dark everyone wears a harness and no one leaves the cockpit without being tethered and someone else on deck.

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Old 29-03-2015, 21:18   #30
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Re: MOB Procedures

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
The transom is a death-trap with a sea running.
Even on the sugarscoop on Monte's Lagoon 400
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