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Old 31-07-2015, 12:58   #151
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Re: MOB Procedures

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Originally Posted by l2ridehd View Post
Sorry, but I respectfully disagree. I will let you be the one to answer the question after your MOB drowns, "why didn't you call a Mayday"
I and my my crew wear pfd's when underway. Makes drowning less likely.
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Old 31-07-2015, 13:07   #152
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Re: MOB Procedures

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Originally Posted by jackdale View Post
Not my homemade slides.

MAN OVERBOARD

From Transport Canada

The Anderson or One Turn method is the fastest, but it requires a very skilful skipper and a vessel with a tight turning circle. The Williamson Turn is slower but easier. The Williamson Turn is recommended if there is danger of losing sight of the person in the water.

https://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/marinesafet...escue-1111.htm

From

http://www.colreg.net/manoverboardquiznew.htm

The Anderson turn is most appropriate when the point to be reached remains clearly visible because it’s quickest of the 3 manoeuvres.

The Williamson turn is most appropriate at night or in reduced visibility, or if the point can be allowed to go (or already has gone) out of sight, but is still relatively near.
Read your own quote again jackdale "if there is danger of losing sight of the person in the water". Meaning the advance of your vessel is large enough or visibility is such that you are likely to go from knowing where the PIW is to not knowing where he is. He becomes out of sight astern of you, he doesn't necessarily start out of site astern of you.

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Old 31-07-2015, 13:12   #153
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Re: MOB Procedures

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Originally Posted by jackdale View Post
I and my my crew wear pfd's when underway. Makes drowning less likely.
I do agree there may be times when it is not needed. Calm seas, competent crew, MOB had on a PFD, daylight and you can maintain visual contact, warm water, and they are laughing and enjoying the dip. Take away any one of those and a Pan Pan should happen and take away a couple and I would err on the side of caution and call a Mayday. Take away just daylight and I would probably do it.

Maybe I am to cautious, but having never had a real MOB happen, I will continue to err on the conservative side of the decision for now. Personally I would rather have called it and not need it and cancel then to have not called it and wish I had.
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Old 31-07-2015, 13:51   #154
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Re: MOB Procedures

This has been an interesting thread to read.

My view (opinion) is certainly different from some.
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If I am really SAILING, I have no fear of the prop chopping up my MOB while on a small boat or typical sail boat as the MOB goes over the side…because the engine is not running.

Even IF the motor was running, I see that as little risk (MOB being sucked into the prop as the boat goes by) on a small sailboat (less than 50 feet LOA).

Why?
I suspect that most MOB happen off the stern (guy adding some salty water to the ocean) or the boat's quarters. I think it would be more rare for a boat to "run over" the MOB.

Perhaps someone here has some hard data on it, but I suspect that most MOBs are usually a few feet off the side of the boat in an instant anyway (not clinging to the hull).

On most typical cruising yachts (less than 50 feet LOA), it only takes a very few seconds (1-4) for the MOB to be past the stern, IF the boat is moving at 5 knots or so.
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Old 31-07-2015, 14:02   #155
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Re: MOB Procedures

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Originally Posted by l2ridehd View Post
I do agree there may be times when it is not needed. Calm seas, competent crew, MOB had on a PFD, daylight and you can maintain visual contact, warm water, and they are laughing and enjoying the dip. Take away any one of those and a Pan Pan should happen and take away a couple and I would err on the side of caution and call a Mayday. Take away just daylight and I would probably do it.

Maybe I am to cautious, but having never had a real MOB happen, I will continue to err on the conservative side of the decision for now. Personally I would rather have called it and not need it and cancel then to have not called it and wish I had.
I was left alone to handle my MOB and DOB (dog over board) situation. The thought to call a radio pan pan crossed my mind for an instant, but just as quick, I realized that in doing so, I would loose the visual contact.

They were reeled in within 3-4 minutes using just the Lifesling even though I wasted valuable time screwing around with the Genoa and making two passes instead of circling them as the Lifesling recommends. The Southern California water was cold in March, they were both freezing when they climbed up the sugar scoop stern.

I can honestly say, messing around with the radio instead of keeping your eye constantly on the MOB is a very stupid idea. You can have the MOB back on the boat in less time than it takes to make contact with the Coast Guard, provide details, position etc. etc... Then they're going to ask you a bunch of questions... All the time spent chatting with them, you can't be using both hands to execute a rescue or directing others onboard, your mental focus will shift to the radio.

You're in charge when it happens... don't go looking for or expect others to conduct the rescue. It's your responsibility... Nobody else's.

Besides, if your MOB went in fully clothed without a PFD... They'll most likely be dead when the Coast Guard eventually finds them. So what good is the mayday anyway?
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Old 31-07-2015, 14:06   #156
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Re: MOB Procedures

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steady Hand View Post
This has been an interesting thread to read.

My view (opinion) is certainly different from some.
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If I am really SAILING, I have no fear of the prop chopping up my MOB while on a small boat or typical sail boat as the MOB goes over the side…because the engine is not running.

Even IF the motor was running, I see that as little risk (MOB being sucked into the prop as the boat goes by) on a small sailboat (less than 50 feet LOA).

Why?
I suspect that most MOB happen off the stern (guy adding some salty water to the ocean) or the boat's quarters. I think it would be more rare for a boat to "run over" the MOB.

Perhaps someone here has some hard data on it, but I suspect that most MOBs are usually a few feet off the side of the boat in an instant anyway (not clinging to the hull).

On most typical cruising yachts (less than 50 feet LOA), it only takes a very few seconds (1-4) for the MOB to be past the stern, IF the boat is moving at 5 knots or so.
Steady hand, for clarity, we are in total agreement on this. In fact the hard numbers do suggest as you say: male, alchohol , pissing off the side and overwhelmingly- wearing no life jacket.

I think there is virtually no risk of getting chopped up by a sailboat under sails propeller or any possibility of completing a Williamson turn under sail. Or any need to conduct a a Williamson turn on a cruising sailboat because there transfer is so small that it is unlikely to contribute to losing site of an MOB.

I am simply arguing the purpose of the Williamson turn because it was brought up. I don't think its generally an appropriate maneuver for the types of vessels most of us sail- for the exact reasons you state. As well as some others.

However I think its good that Jackdale teaches it, because it helps new sailors understand ship handling better.

I also agree with Jackdales use of Life Jackets, on my boat they are mandatory after dark or outside the cockpit.

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Old 31-07-2015, 14:08   #157
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Re: MOB Procedures

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Originally Posted by Kenomac View Post
I was left alone to handle my MOB and DOB (dog over board) situation. The thought to call a radio pan pan crossed my mind for an instant, but just as quick, I realized that in doing so, I would loose the visual contact.

They were reeled in within 3-4 minutes using just the Lifesling. I wasted valuable time screwing around with the Genoa and making two passes instead of circling them as the Lifesling recommends. The Southern California water was cold in March, they were both freezing when they climbed up the sugar scoop stern.

I can honestly say, messing around with the radio instead of keeping your eye constantly on the MOB is a stupid idea. You can have the MOB back on the boat in less time than it takes to make contact with the Coast Guard, provide details, position etc. etc... Then they're going to ask you a bunch of questions... All the time spent chatting with them, you can't be using both hands to execute a rescue.

You're in charge when it happens... don't go looking for or expect others to conduct the rescue. It's your responsibility... Nobody else's.
You're making a very specific assumption. Doing it alone. Most of the time that is not the case. Good sound judgement has to prevail. And if the choice is losing sight or making the call then sound judgement says maintain MOB visual contact. You can find an exception to every thing that every happens in this world, doesn't make all the others a stupid idea as you suggest.
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Old 31-07-2015, 14:16   #158
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Re: MOB Procedures

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steady Hand View Post
This has been an interesting thread to read.

My view (opinion) is certainly different from some.
_________________

If I am really SAILING, I have no fear of the prop chopping up my MOB while on a small boat or typical sail boat as the MOB goes over the side…because the engine is not running.

Even IF the motor was running, I see that as little risk (MOB being sucked into the prop as the boat goes by) on a small sailboat (less than 50 feet LOA).

Why?
I suspect that most MOB happen off the stern (guy adding some salty water to the ocean) or the boat's quarters. I think it would be more rare for a boat to "run over" the MOB.

Perhaps someone here has some hard data on it, but I suspect that most MOBs are usually a few feet off the side of the boat in an instant anyway (not clinging to the hull).

On most typical cruising yachts (less than 50 feet LOA), it only takes a very few seconds (1-4) for the MOB to be past the stern, IF the boat is moving at 5 knots or so.
Again speaking unfortunately from experience, the problem related to the prop is not so much the MOB being chopped up, it's lines dragging behind the boat during the chaos that can become entangled in the prop. Lines attached to some sort of life ring, throwing line etc. which might drag your MOB under. Or if your prop is equipped with a line cutter, it may cut the rescue line setting your MOB adrift with your rescue device.
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Old 31-07-2015, 14:19   #159
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Re: MOB Procedures

If you lose someone over the side at night with a bit of a sea running you will have lost sight of them the moment they go in.... then the most important thing is to know what your reciprocal course is.
Do not gybe.... or you may well be looking for two people... one with head injuries.
I always impress upon people that if they fall in then they will most probably die...
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Old 31-07-2015, 14:23   #160
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Re: MOB Procedures

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Originally Posted by l2ridehd View Post
You're making a very specific assumption. Doing it alone. Most of the time that is not the case. Good sound judgement has to prevail. And if the choice is losing sight or making the call then sound judgement says maintain MOB visual contact. You can find an exception to every thing that every happens in this world, doesn't make all the others a stupid idea as you suggest.
Fine.. do it your way.

BTW... If you're the skipper, you will feel and be VERY alone during the rescue.
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Old 31-07-2015, 14:25   #161
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Re: MOB Procedures

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Originally Posted by El Pinguino View Post
If you lose someone over the side at night with a bit of a sea running you will have lost sight of them the moment they go in.... then the most important thing is to know what your reciprocal course is.
Do not gybe.... or you may well be looking for two people... one with head injuries.
I always impress upon people that if they fall in then they will most probably die...
Try doing a Williamson turn without Gybing

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Old 31-07-2015, 14:28   #162
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Re: MOB Procedures

All good stuff here. It's also wise to have an idea of how to get MOB victim on board if he/she is alongside but unable to climb on board. (A person could be weak; a dog can't climb a ladder.)
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Old 31-07-2015, 14:33   #163
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Re: MOB Procedures

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All good stuff here. It's also wise to have an idea of how to get MOB victim on board if he/she is alongside but unable to climb on board. (A person could be weak; a dog can't climb a ladder.)
Dogs can swim for hours, just reach over and grab the skin on their back to haul them in. Humans on the other hand, can drown or die from hypothermia in a relatively short period of time. Getting them back on board is a bigger problem. Buy a boat with a boarding platform... Or have one added.

We no longer allow dogs on our boat... For obvious reasons.
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Old 31-07-2015, 14:34   #164
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Re: MOB Procedures

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Try doing a Williamson turn without Gybing

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The Williamson and Anderson turns are done with a power-driven vessel.
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Old 31-07-2015, 14:45   #165
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Re: MOB Procedures

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All good stuff here. It's also wise to have an idea of how to get MOB victim on board if he/she is alongside but unable to climb on board. (A person could be weak; a dog can't climb a ladder.)
Roll them into an inflatable dinghy, if you are towing one.

Use a Lifesling if there is not indication of hypothermia.

Dog pfd's have a handle on the back, tie a line through it and lift them up, with a halyard if necessary.
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