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Old 31-07-2015, 07:54   #136
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Re: MOB Procedures

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Originally Posted by Kenomac View Post
Dockhead.

I just noticed a BIG flaw in your MOB plan. #4... You can't throw a Lifesling recovery buoy, it's unweighted. The best you can do is drop it overboard and allow the line to stream out by itself as you keep an eye on the MOB.

Practice with your Lifesling to find out the best way to use it. It's not intended to be used as you describe in several of your steps.

Ken
Thank you. Obviously we've never tried this, that's on the agenda for this week. I'll go back and look at the video and try deploying it.
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Old 31-07-2015, 08:01   #137
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Re: MOB Procedures

Thanks everyone for taking the time to respond to my post. I'm definitely rethinking the procedures considering your comments especially the following.
1. Shorten this set of procedures
2. Delete the radio call as an early response
3. Figure out exactly how the lifelong works and learn to use it.

I do think having a set of very detailed procedures is helpful. While I agree that the adrenaline rush can blow away the list, in our particular case I believe it would literally be a lifesaver. My wife is a novice, in the absence of guidance she believes she would panic. She is also a flight attendant, so she is used to following a defined set of procedures. Her training is memorize the list, practice the list, in the event DO the list. You should see what goes into the list just for opening the door after a hard landing!

When I get a chance to revise the list, I'm going to post it again and invite comment. Thanks again to everyone who helps make this a great place for advice.
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Old 31-07-2015, 08:26   #138
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Re: MOB Procedures

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Originally Posted by Pendragon35 View Post
Thanks everyone for taking the time to respond to my post. I'm definitely rethinking the procedures considering your comments especially the following.
One comment and one question . . .

The comment - do definitely "invest" in getting your partner comfortable and competent. Send her on a course if it might help. Building her comfort and competence is much more important than almost anything else you can do.

The question - for most of you - don't you all lose hats overboard regularly? And don't you go back to get them? I guess I am puzzled by all the angst about how to turn around and drive to and stop the boat at a floating object. We lost lots of hats, and always (perhaps not truly always but almost) went back to get them. With a hat you can snag it "on the fly" and don't have to stop dead as you do with a MOB, but we did tend to stop dead just for practice. I dont think either of us had much question or hesitation about how to get back to an object in the water. I guess I would have thought any "competent seaman" would be able to do it as a matter of course. Perhaps it is "a lost art", like anchoring under sail.

Lifting a body once there is another story. We had a permanent spare halyard rigged and designated for that job. The same halyard Beth used to take me up the mast so she knew exactly that she could lift me with it. This always seemed quicker and more foolproof to me than rigging something special purpose at the time (a la a tackle on the boom).
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Old 31-07-2015, 08:41   #139
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Re: MOB Procedures

Very worthwhile thread all.

A couple of thoughts. First, Safety is all about three steps so lets not minimize any one of the three. Also, no one has really discussed the third aspect.
1) Prevention (such as training, SOPs, non-slip, jack lines, netting, etc.)
2) Minimizing the risk (helmets, MOB systems, rapid recovery)
3) Minimizing the damage (treating hypothermia, stopping bleeding, etc.)

Secondly, checklist. In aviation we always used checklists. Critical items were memory items, often at the start of a longer list. In other words, establish your own checklist with the critical memory items at the start (or the KISS ones), and then the less critical items further down the list. The list allows for review & memorization in quiet, non-emergency times, briefings when new crew come aboard, and in an emergency but following performance of the memory items, it is the check to ensure you didn't miss anything crucial.
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Old 31-07-2015, 09:59   #140
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Re: MOB Procedures

I have my own written procedures and are close to what many of you have stated here, but none are exactly like mine. Mine have worked during practice, picking up dropped hats or towels, but never for a true MOB situation. Have it laminated and in the cockpit when ever I sail, along with "pre-sail checklist" and "when to wear a PFD rules".

Man Overboard Procedures
1. Alert all crew of MOB. Designate a spotter to maintain visual contact with the MOB if available.
2. Remain calm and in control
3. NO ONE JUMPS OVERBOARD unless Captain tells you to and you have a PFD with light and beacon on. (Possible if MOB is severely injured)
4. Throw the lifesling and probably markers if in rough seas. Fender, cushions, PFD, anything that will float to maintain a trail back to MOB.
5. STOP THE BOAT. Heave to, come about, head into the wind, reverse engines, but someway stop and stay as close to MOB as possible.
6. Call a MOB Mayday on VHF, push MOB button to mark location.
7. Return toward the MOB and drag the lifesling line around them. This can be done using sail, power, back winded jib, whichever way is the safest and fastest.
8. Approach MOB on leeward side in normal to low seas, keep MOB on windward side in rough seas.
9. Using sling, step rope, winches, halyard, strong crew, block and tackle, extending boom, but get the MOB back on board.
10. Cancel the mayday.
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Old 31-07-2015, 10:28   #141
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Re: MOB Procedures

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Call a MOB Mayday on VHF, push MOB button to mark location.

Cancel the mayday.
If you issue a Mayday, the Coast Guard will probably assume control of the situation. Then only the Coast Guard can cancel the Mayday.

If the Coast Guard does not assume control, then you are in control. Now you have more on your plate.

DO NOT ISSUE A MAYDAY UNLESS THERE IS GRAVE AND IMMINENT DANGER TO THE LIFE OF THE MOB AND IMMEDIATE ASSISTANCE IS REQUIRED.
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Old 31-07-2015, 10:35   #142
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Re: MOB Procedures

In the Salish Sea when I do most sailing, getting the MOB out of the water is a priority. If you are towing an inflatable as many of us do, you can use it. Keep the painter attached to the mother ship, get the inflatable along side the MOB and roll them into the dinghy.

In cold water, that last thing you want to do is lift an MOB straight up. We train our folks to go into the HELP position. If you straighten their arms / legs after prolonged exposure, cold water can enter the core and result in a cardiac arrest.
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Old 31-07-2015, 10:49   #143
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Re: MOB Procedures

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Originally Posted by Pendragon35 View Post
practice the list,
This has to be done repeatedly until it is almost instinctive.

I have practice hundreds if, not thousands of times on different boats. I always demonstrate each of the four MOBs we teach before I have students do it.

As an aside, when I teach the Williamson turn I have the students stare at the compass and count aloud each 10 degrees as they execute the maneuver.

Quarter turn of the wheel, count to 60, half turn back and count to 60, then count to 180. (I find hard-over creates too rapid a turn)

The Williamson turn is used when there has been delay in noticing the MOB and the MOB is not in sight. I have used it to pick up an errant fender that was lost in fog.
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Old 31-07-2015, 11:06   #144
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Re: MOB Procedures

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This has to be done repeatedly until it is almost instinctive.

I have practice hundreds if, not thousands of times on different boats. I always demonstrate each of the four MOBs we teach before I have students do it.

As an aside, when I teach the Williamson turn I have the students stare at the compass and count aloud each 10 degrees as they execute the maneuver.

Quarter turn of the wheel, count to 60, half turn back and count to 60, then count to 180. (I find hard-over creates too rapid a turn)

The Williamson turn is used when there has been delay in noticing the MOB and the MOB is not in sight. I have used it to pick up an errant fender that was lost in fog.
The first step in a Williamson turn is to steer towards the side the mob fell from to kick the prop away from him. This assumes the MOB is in site, and that is when this maneuver is most appropriate.

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Old 31-07-2015, 11:36   #145
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Re: MOB Procedures

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The first step in a Williamson turn is to steer towards the side the mob fell from to kick the prop away from him. This assumes the MOB is in site, and that is when this maneuver is most appropriate.

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If the MOB is in sight I would do an Anderson turn. Much faster. The first maneuver in an Anderson to turn the stern away from the MOB.
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Old 31-07-2015, 11:38   #146
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Re: MOB Procedures

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If the MOB is in sight I would do an Anderson turn. Much faster. The first maneuver in an Anderson to turn the stern away from the MOB.
That may be so, but the Williamson Turn was designed for very recent MOBs. Its really more suited to a ship than a small sailboat any way. I don't think I'd use it on my 35 footer.

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Old 31-07-2015, 11:56   #147
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Re: MOB Procedures

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That may be so, but the Williamson Turn was designed for very recent MOBs. Its really more suited to a ship than a small sailboat any way. I don't think I'd use it on my 35 footer.

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The Williamson turn is used to get back on your track when the MOB occurred in the past and is out of sight.





The Anderson turn is also used to pick up water skiers.

I teach both.
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Old 31-07-2015, 12:14   #148
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Re: MOB Procedures

Sorry if my opinion isn't changed by your home made slides or the fact that you are a yachting instructor.

The Williamson turn can be used when you don't know which side the guy fell off on and you want to return on your reciprocal course in the dark, or it can be used when you see the guy fall off, or have a report of an mob including which side. In the latter two instances your first step is hard over towards the side the guy fell off on so you don't chop him up. If chopping him up is a concern, that means he's still forward of the propeller when you initiate the turn and is there for very recent.

Both having the time to execute a Williamson turn before the guy is in your prop, and the fact that there might be some kind of challenge returning on your reciprocal track suggests this turn was designed for long ships with large turning circles.

What's the turning circle of a motoring sailboat? 50 or 60 feet? The reciprocal track isn't all that relevant for a vessel with a turning circle of that size.

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Old 31-07-2015, 12:37   #149
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Re: MOB Procedures

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Originally Posted by FamilyVan View Post
Sorry if my opinion isn't changed by your home made slides or the fact that you are a yachting instructor.


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Not my homemade slides.

MAN OVERBOARD

From Transport Canada

The Anderson or One Turn method is the fastest, but it requires a very skilful skipper and a vessel with a tight turning circle. The Williamson Turn is slower but easier. The Williamson Turn is recommended if there is danger of losing sight of the person in the water.

https://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/marinesafet...escue-1111.htm

From

http://www.colreg.net/manoverboardquiznew.htm

The Anderson turn is most appropriate when the point to be reached remains clearly visible because it’s quickest of the 3 manoeuvres.

The Williamson turn is most appropriate at night or in reduced visibility, or if the point can be allowed to go (or already has gone) out of sight, but is still relatively near.
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Old 31-07-2015, 12:45   #150
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Re: MOB Procedures

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If you issue a Mayday, the Coast Guard will probably assume control of the situation. Then only the Coast Guard can cancel the Mayday.

If the Coast Guard does not assume control, then you are in control. Now you have more on your plate.

DO NOT ISSUE A MAYDAY UNLESS THERE IS GRAVE AND IMMINENT DANGER TO THE LIFE OF THE MOB AND IMMEDIATE ASSISTANCE IS REQUIRED.

Sorry, but I respectfully disagree. I will let you be the one to answer the question after your MOB drowns, "why didn't you call a Mayday"

As for dealing with having to cancel a Mayday, that is being done when the MOB is back on board and I have plenty of time to deal with it. And as far as them taking control, just how are they going to do that when everything should be over in less then 5 minutes? And if it's not, I want them and everyone else to help any way possible. IMHO anytime you have a MOB there is danger to the life of the MOB and immediate assistance may very well be required. Great if it's not, but for the one in a dozen that it is, I want all the help I can get.
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