Medical Equipment AED Onboard

[hellosailor]

"I purchased ours brand new on ebay for around $250. "
I'd have concerns about authenticity, eBay being what it is. Like wanting to confirm the serial number and such with the maker, and any seals on the unit.


Wouldn't it also make sense to carry a clotbuster (TPA?) kit onboard, in case someone has a clot & strokes out while you are out of harbor? That's also something where there's a narrow window, and no other really goods response.

[dbaublis]

Most CPR courses also have AED courses, separate or combined. It is highly recommended to take the course. In the course and certification, you actually use the machine, placing electrodes, etc., a few times. Learning how to do this from the prompts when someone actually experienced a heart attack is not the best education scenario. In addition, the method of CPR has changed significantly in the past 10 years. It is not like the old days. If you don't take a course, at least become totally familiar with the unit before it is needed.

[crazyoldboatguy]

I am seriously considering having one of these on board for the many reasons mentioned here.

For those who are skeptical, remember that the world doesn't happen like a script. If a person suffers from a shallow water blackout while skin diving do you assume they have died of a heart attack and don't perform CPR? Of course not. I will likely have some O2 on board for SCUBA related injuries and the AED seems a logical next step.

There are no guarantees - those who disparage the use of this device seem to believe they can predict what is happening and what will happen. Electrocution, certain chest injuries, etc, can stop a heart COLD. In many cases non disease related heart stoppages can ONLY be reversed with an AED. In the event the victim can be reached in time, this could be useful. As with all safety devices, training and understanding are key.

Even in disease related events, a stabilized victim has a period of time to reach medical care - without the AED it's basically a burial at sea.

[Stumble]

We looked at these in detail for my yacht club, and frankly I never saw the point.

Sure in the small subset of cases where they are useful they are worth having, but that is a very small group of people. They don't work for most heart attacks, and are useless for 'jump starting' a heart post diving accident. They are ONLY useful for particular types of rare cardiac arythmias.

I guess if you have already bought and stored every other type of medical equipment you might use they might be a decent next purchase, but despite their popularity they really aren't that useful. A much better buy is a very large oxygen tank, or even a portable hyperbaric chamber (if diving).

To treat any of the medical stuff you guys are talking about requires a full defibulator, and a lot of training to really be able to use it properly.


Frankly I just see them as the medical device of the week. Sure it's sexy to install one, but it is incredibly unlikely you would ever contemplate using one, and even when you might think of it an AED won't work anyway. UNLESS you have a history of V-Tach in which case it mightbe helpful, but your doctor should be screaming at you for considering be this far away from a hospital.

[CarlF]

At the risk of thread drift, what other supplies do people consider keeping on board for "life at risk" medical emergencies?

EpiPen
QuickClot sponge for bleeding
Aspirin (heart attack?)
Benedryl
Seasickness suppositories
Antibiotics?
Heavy duty pain killer?

Others?

[hellosailor]

Oxygen tank: Wouldn't that be somewhat obsoleted by an oxygen concentrator instead these days? Uses an electrical compressor to push air into a zeolite mass, which then allows the nitrogen to be dumped and the oxygen to be fed out a hose to the patient. They can cycle between 2-3 packets of zeolite, so the patient is using one while the others recharge, resulting in unlimited low flow oxygen, as long as there is power. No hydro inspections, etc. needed as well.

[ntscout]

Wow, $250 is pretty cheap. What this a recertified or brand new unit? All the supplies unexpired? How did you handle the doctor's prescription? I think a script is required to have an AED.

Sounds like a great idea if I took the training and all.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by ntscout

Wow, $250 is pretty cheap. What this a recertified or brand new unit? All the supplies unexpired? How did you handle the doctor's prescription? I think a script is required to have an AED.

Sounds like a great idea if I took the training and all.

No problem for us to buy an AED, since both of us are registered nurses. They come up fairly regularly on eBay and Amazon for short money depending on battery life remaining. The cost for a new battery is around $200. I just got lucky buying ours new, but wouldn't have had an issue buying a used one and then purchasing a new battery. It's not like AEDs get much wear and tear.

[Kenomac]

Contrary to what a couple of folks have posted regarding the usefulness of an AED, I know personally of a couple of people who would have surely died if an AED had not been present when they suffered an unexpected arrhythmia or accident, basically, the machine saved their life. I also know of many who couldn't have been saved following an actual heart attack involving clogged arteries.

So I ask the naysayers: On which vessel would they rather suffer a cardiac stoppage. The boat with two registered nurses and the AED or the boat with neither? Which situation would offer them a fighting chance for survival following an accidental drowning or electrical shock?

[Yeti]

My $.02....


I was a Paramedic in a generally rural area for 5+ years. During that time I estimate I did close to 1800 EMS runs. In all of those runs I probably used the defib around 24 times, one of those times was an attempt at cardioversion and I probably used the pacer 2 or 3 times. So for around 20 defib attempts I had 1 person live in the ICU for about 2 days, everyone else was for all purposes already dead. I had all the other usual ACLS stuff available in the ambulance and still only had 1 "win" that wasn't really a win.

Its been my (limited) experience that If you go into v-fib or v-tac and I had to shock you, you're pretty much SOL.

[goboatingnow]

I have friends who are doctors and they also sail. They are off the view that if you can't access a trauma hospital within the first hour after AED use, its not a lot of use onboard.

I don't have enough knowledge to query the correctness of this viewpoint, so I be interested to hear any professional viewpoint. I not a great fan f then" better then nothing " argument , you could fill the boat with things on that basis.

Dave

[Stumble]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

Contrary to what a couple of folks have posted regarding the usefulness of an AED, I know personally of a couple of people who would have surely died if an AED had not been present when they suffered an unexpected arrhythmia or accident, basically, the machine saved their life. I also know of many who couldn't have been saved following an actual heart attack involving clogged arteries.

So I ask the naysayers: On which vessel would they rather suffer a cardiac stoppage. The boat with two registered nurses and the AED or the boat with neither? Which situation would offer them a fighting chance for survival following an accidental drowning or electrical shock?

Oh no question if you happen to go into one of the two rare heart arythmias they can treat it would be better to be on a boat that has one. But for a limited budget and space there are better things to pack.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by Yeti

My $.02....


I was a Paramedic in a generally rural area for 5+ years. During that time I estimate I did close to 1800 EMS runs. In all of those runs I probably used the defib around 24 times, one of those times was an attempt at cardioversion and I probably used the pacer 2 or 3 times. So for around 20 defib attempts I had 1 person live in the ICU for about 2 days, everyone else was for all purposes already dead. I had all the other usual ACLS stuff available in the ambulance and still only had 1 "win" that wasn't really a win.

Its been my (limited) experience that If you go into v-fib or v-tac and I had to shock you, you're pretty much SOL.

We're not referring to the same situation here. If someone has a problem on our boat, we are right there to treat the person immediately... No time wasted. In your case and examples... Much time is wasted in each attempted rescue by you and your staff needing to actually get to the victim before any rescue measures can even be started. So yes... given your examples, the victim would be SOL. My brother who worked as an emergency room nurse for 20 years agrees with you. Unless your team could get to the victim within 2-3 minutes from the time of occurrence.... Not the initial phone call.... They would be dead by the time you had them hooked up to the AED.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

I have friends who are doctors and they also sail. They are off the view that if you can't access a trauma hospital within the first hour after AED use, its not a lot of use onboard.

I don't have enough knowledge to query the correctness of this viewpoint, so I be interested to hear any professional viewpoint. I not a great fan f then" better then nothing " argument , you could fill the boat with things on that basis.

Dave

OK how's this example:
I personally know of one nurse who dropped dead of an arrhythmia on her parents front doorstep. The paramedics arrived within five minutes and got her restarted and paced with an AED... She made a full recovery and returned to work. I know this, because I was the substitute nurse the school system hired to replace her.

I'm actually surprised by the number of thread responders who are of the mindset... Why bother even trying to save someone? Why waste the money?

Also seems like many boaters end up drowning when they try to enter a life raft... So why bother even having one? They take up space that can be used for more useful items which will more likely get used.

[Yeti]

For sure the quicker the issue can be worked on the better.

What about early recognition coupled with a free precordial thump.....


Really though, if you can get the equipment for fairly cheap, why not have it available. In the grand scheme of things I think spending .000001% of the total boat fund for a .00001% possibility is ok.

Be prepared if you can afford it.