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Old 17-02-2015, 17:48   #121
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Re: Medical Equipment AED Onboard

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Originally Posted by socaldmax View Post
It's going to be hard to make that look like an accident, later on in court.
Freewill and Apple pie. A person can do whatever he wants without my permission....... I just concurred with his personal choice.....

(your honour)
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Old 17-02-2015, 17:54   #122
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Re: Medical Equipment AED Onboard

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Freewill and Apple pie. A person can do whatever he wants without my permission....... I just concurred with his personal choice.....

(your honour)
Yes your honor. He was awake, lucid and told me where to put the drill bit. All I did is follow his instructions to relieve a very bad headache.
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Old 17-02-2015, 18:00   #123
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Re: Medical Equipment AED Onboard

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Yes your honor. He was awake, lucid and told me where to put the drill bit. All I did is follow his instructions to relieve a very bad headache.
Yes your honour. I did so. However, I meant on me. Obviously incapable of following instructions and for the safety of mankind should be incarcerated. A sad case. Can I have his drill?
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Old 17-02-2015, 18:12   #124
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Re: Medical Equipment AED Onboard

Even if an AED has very little chance of saving someone when the boat is far offshore, we should consider how much time we spend out there as opposed to the time we are much closer to medical help. Accidents certainly occur at the dock and heart attacks can strike mid sundown cocktail.

I greatly appreciate this thread; it's motivated me to get the AED and some other things and to refresh my CPR training. I confess it's been too long since I had a class.

Thank you to all you lent their opinions and expertise.

Fair winds,
Leo
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Old 17-02-2015, 18:14   #125
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Re: Medical Equipment AED Onboard

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Originally Posted by Leo Ticheli View Post
I'd like to add to the request of additions to the AED. What other emergency medical equipment would add to a heart attack victim's chances and can be used by laymen?

Fair winds,
Leo
Even if you are within sight of land how long do you think it would take to get to a hospital? I mean really. More than the "Golden Hour" I think.

So one might as well be in a remote place.

Now, at a marina dock, fine. Just like being in the condo......except for loading the stretcher on the cabin sole and getting it up to the cockpit and over the lifelines. Heh.

Just use the method that has been used forever.

Prayer.

Fine if you people want to feel better but you must realize that you just continue to rationalize the need for something that is used for things that are virtually unheard of in the cruising community. Now the marina community may be different and move your chances one decimal point. .00001 to .0001 ?? So pitch in and just get one for the marina.

But like I said. If it makes you feel better, fine. That is what cruising is all about.
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Old 17-02-2015, 18:16   #126
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Re: Medical Equipment AED Onboard

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Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
Invisible AEDs in airports?


It is called "situational awareness". Most of the herd do not look around. Do not stop to look at fire extinguishers in the hotel hallway (often discharged by frolicking guests), do not stop to look for the emergency exits when they are in airports, or theatres, or anyplace else. It is an acquired habit, not a natural one in our society.


But if you LOOK at the walls around you, you will find red and white "AED" signs, the same way there are "FIRE" signs and exit signs.
You're absolutely correct. We went to the New England boat show today, and I saw my first public AED station in the convention center lobby. Had I not taken the CPR AED class three months ago and purchased an AED, I really don't think I would have seen it or known what it was. I'd been out of the medical field for 15 years, and the devices were just starting to be used by EMS at that time. They were enormously expensive. Of course I knew about defibrillators in the hospital setting, but didn't know about the small portable "even a monkey can use it" type units.

Ken
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Old 17-02-2015, 18:26   #127
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Re: Medical Equipment AED Onboard

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Originally Posted by Therapy View Post
Even if you are within sight of land how long do you think it would take to get to a hospital? I mean really. More than the "Golden Hour" I think.

So one might as well be in a remote place.

Now, at a marina dock, fine. Just like being in the condo......except for loading the stretcher on the cabin sole and getting it up to the cockpit and over the lifelines. Heh.

Just use the method that has been used forever.

Prayer.

Fine if you people want to feel better but you must realize that you just continue to rationalize the need for something that is used for things that are virtually unheard of in the cruising community. Now the marina community may be different and move your chances one decimal point. .00001 to .0001 ?? So pitch in and just get one for the marina.

But like I said. If it makes you feel better, fine. That is what cruising is all about.
Good point. Rationality vs Prayer. You say prayer. I say get that AED and use it should the need arise and then pray.

I suppose you didn't read the post that in more than 25% of the cases of a heart attack amongst 1750 people with the use of an AED they survived.

Some Doctors have no idea how simple to use these devices are today and you have other Doctors in a Hospital who are trying to resuscitate already very sick people who have their experience coloured by the low success rate on these already admitted people.

I would take a 25% over 0% any day.
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Old 17-02-2015, 18:51   #128
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Re: Medical Equipment AED Onboard

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Originally Posted by weavis View Post

I was present at demonstration a few years ago where several people were asked to deploy a liferaft in an emergency simulation. only 3 out of 10 did it correctly and efficiently and in time. I leave the parallel conclusion to the reader.

:
That is one really expensive practice session having heard what it costs to repack a life raft. No wonder no one practices it.

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Originally Posted by caradow View Post
yes, use the drill, as long as you drill on the side with the dilated pupil.
also doing it on a cat will be safer as long as you are not taking seas on the beam.
Same side??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenomac View Post
You're absolutely correct. We went to the New England boat show today, and I saw my first public AED station in the convention center lobby. Had I not taken the CPR AED class three months ago and purchased an AED, I really don't think I would have seen it or known what it was. I'd been out of the medical field for 15 years, and the devices were just starting to be used by EMS at that time. They were enormously expensive. Of course I knew about defibrillators in the hospital setting, but didn't know about the small portable "even a monkey can use it" type units.

Ken
Out for the last 15 years?

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Originally Posted by Going Walkabout View Post
Good point. Rationality vs Prayer. You say prayer. I say get that AED and use it should the need arise and then pray.

I suppose you didn't read the post that in more than 25% of the cases of a heart attack amongst 1750 people with the use of an AED they survived.

Some Doctors have no idea how simple to use these devices are today and you have other Doctors in a Hospital who are trying to resuscitate already very sick people who have their experience coloured by the low success rate on these already admitted people.

I would take a 25% over 0% any day.
I read it. I am not going to research the 25% though. I am going to go on past research and call it "possibly misleading". Like cancer survival. The medical community loves to obfuscate that survival rate.

And that is only one study right? Who financed it? Obviously I have been in medicine too long...

Survival as a term used in medicine is highly susceptible to "interpretation".

Don't get me wrong. If you have the money, storage space, time for practice and it makes you feel better please, by all means, put one in the cabin. I do feel that most are more likely to go through $400 worth of band-aids, ace wraps, aspirin and medicinal brandy long before the battery needs replacement. And speaking of that why can't one just get an adapter to plug into 12v?
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Old 17-02-2015, 19:00   #129
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Re: Medical Equipment AED Onboard

So, if y'all are going to buy.........

http://www.aedsuperstore.com/assets/...uyersGuide.pdf

I love this one......
Why AEDs?
The primary reason...they have the potential to save thousands of lives…including yours!

Makes me think of the average army. Have the potential to take millions of lives. Reality - not so much.

Amazon.com: Philips HeartStart Home Defibrillator (AED): Health & Personal Care

They ain't cheap unless you get lucky like Kenomacs. Sort of like 1100 to 3k. But for the price of a Genoa, what the heck.

But I for sure want to know the first time it is used. Not just put on because the "layman" panicked and knew nothing. Used.
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Old 17-02-2015, 19:19   #130
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Re: Medical Equipment AED Onboard

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Out [of the medical field] for the last 15 years?

Yes, 15 years.... Is there a problem?


why can't one just get an adapter to plug into 12v?
The lithium battery is not the rechargeable type. Shelf life five years, expected life while in use, 5 years. The unit I purchased for $175 following the price reduction by the seller still had a 50% charge.
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Old 17-02-2015, 20:00   #131
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Re: Medical Equipment AED Onboard

Only that for most, being "out of the business" for 15 years would be considered a long time. Lots happened. Like it is OK to eat butter and eggs again.

Lately Oleo is not the topic. It is GMOs, "free range", "organic" and yep, AEDs. I see a lot of medicine now as what is popular and consumer driven. Even though there is much money-driven research and the resultant biased misinformation.

Do you know that they even make a dog food that is purely vegetable based? Because (misinformed) people want it. They do surreptitiously put in certain nutrients in disguise so the pups won't starve on it though.

Sorry I am so negative. Maybe it is like cumulative radiation exposure. The "crap" has reached a critical point and is toxic now.
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Old 17-02-2015, 20:27   #132
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Re: Medical Equipment AED Onboard

Mr Therapy,

It's not like my 6 years of University study were erased from my mental hard drive. It took a good two weeks to get back up to speed, some drugs had new names, others were discontinued, otherwise.... same old, same old. Mostly, it was regaining my confidence in the field and overcoming a small amount of self doubt. Other nurses had voiced skepticism, which only encouraged me to give it a try. Glad I did.

I even knew about the vegetable based dog and cat food some people are trying to feed their pets... But converting canines into vegetarians.... that might take a few million years.
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Old 17-02-2015, 20:40   #133
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Re: Medical Equipment AED Onboard

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Only that for most, being "out of the business" for 15 years would be considered a long time. Lots happened. Like it is OK to eat butter and eggs again.

Lately Oleo is not the topic. It is GMOs, "free range", "organic" and yep, AEDs. I see a lot of medicine now as what is popular and consumer driven. Even though there is much money-driven research and the resultant biased misinformation.

Do you know that they even make a dog food that is purely vegetable based? Because (misinformed) people want it. They do surreptitiously put in certain nutrients in disguise so the pups won't starve on it though.

Sorry I am so negative. Maybe it is like cumulative radiation exposure. The "crap" has reached a critical point and is toxic now.

So tell me what's wrong with organic food that isn't coated or grown in an artificial chemical rich environment. You know you senior old time Doctors practiced medicine while watching the largest increase of cancers of mankind. Gave you ever stopped to think why this is so? Why the exponential growth of cancer during your life time? And now you poo boo those who choose to eat food that hasn't been bathed in carcinogenic toxic chemicals. Many don't eat organic food because it costs more and isn't as easily available as the non organic foods. But it is a credit to the growing health awareness of the population that so many would choose organic over non organic given the choice at the same price.

One is instructed as a Doctor to do no harm. Using modern day AED's does not course harm. Not using one can. Your belittling the use of AED's my friend I contend does more harm than good. Even though its out of your own confessed ignorance of the research.

I am sorry and I don't mean to be harsh but misinformation that dissuades one person that then may have otherwise saved a life if they used an AED is something I wouldn't want on my conscience. Please check the research on these modern day life saving devices.
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Old 17-02-2015, 20:43   #134
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Re: Medical Equipment AED Onboard

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Mr Therapy,

It's not like my 6 years of University study were erased from my mental hard drive. It took a good two weeks to get back up to speed, some drugs had new names, others were discontinued, otherwise.... same old, same old. Mostly, it was regaining my confidence in the field and overcoming a small amount of self doubt. Other nurses had voiced skepticism, which only encouraged me to give it a try. Glad I did.

I even knew about the vegetable based dog and cat food the kooks are trying to feed their pets... converting canines into vegetarians....trying to undue millions of years of evolution and starving Kitty and Fido in the process... Yep that'll work....
Dang!
Welcome back. You can have my job. I want out.
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Old 17-02-2015, 21:02   #135
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Re: Medical Equipment AED Onboard

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So tell me what's wrong with organic food that isn't coated or grown in an artificial chemical rich environment. You know you senior old time Doctors practiced medicine while watching the largest increase of cancers of mankind. Gave you ever stopped to think why this is so? Why the exponential growth of cancer during your life time? And now you poo boo those who choose to eat food that hasn't been bathed in carcinogenic toxic chemicals. Many don't eat organic food because it costs more and isn't as easily available as the non organic foods. But it is a credit to the growing health awareness of the population that so many would choose organic over non organic given the choice at the same price.

One is instructed as a Doctor to do no harm. Using modern day AED's does not course harm. Not using one can. Your belittling the use of AED's my friend I contend does more harm than good. Even though its out of your own confessed ignorance of the research.

I am sorry and I don't mean to be harsh but misinformation that dissuades one person that then may have otherwise saved a life if they used an AED is something I wouldn't want on my conscience. Please check the research on these modern day life saving devices.
I feel pretty senior a lot these days though I am not a doctor.

I have stopped and thought, and read others thoughts. I know one major reason. It is our longevity. Exponential growth in population has occurred in large part because of our technology.

And lots of "organic" foods are falsely labeled. They are tricking you into paying more for the same thing.

And how come with "the growing health awareness" we have more obesity than ever before?

Not using one does not "cause harm". But I understand what you are trying to say.

Ouch. I will confess I have not read any new "research" in the last 3 months. What is new? Anything that can't be partially traced back to someone selling the items in question?

If you have the belief that you will one day use one to save a life you can certainly do that. I am talking about the relative use of one on a cruising boat.

I will keep my belief that the cost doesn't justify the chance of using it successfully. Successfully means "happily ever after", not "made it to the hospital but died two days after discharge".

I will try to look up ya'lls 25%. Unless you would like to show me your "research" eh? Save me some time.

Nite nite.
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