Mass Robbery in St. Lucia

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by tropicalescape

I belive the killing your enemy stuff started after the europeans got here ..Most indeginious peoples didnt do a lot of killing ,the height of victory in battle for "indians" was to simply touch the chief of the opposing tribe..

I strongly recommend you read the history on the Mayan, Aztec and Inca civilizations before you make such a foolish comment again.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by foolishsailor

Not sure i understand how the Caribs are defined as more violent than any other group as they are simply defined as a tribal group that migrated out of the Orinoco area and into the Caribbean prior to European Occupation. And as for "Black Carib". This is a broad and loose term that could include anything from black descendent of slaver era to black/carib deacendent. Either way not sure how this group of people would be any more predisposed to violence than any other poor islander?

The Caribs that live as a community in Dominica are not a problem AFAIK. The thing is that the people who live on the islanders often talk about "Caribs" when they actually mean "Black Caribs". And they often point their fingers to them in case of violent crime. Sorry if you don't like that, but it is how it is.

My comments of Caribs as a war tribe and cannibals is a historic one; I thought that was clear.

Originally Posted by Southern Star

1. Can we extrapolate from this that St. Lucia as a whole is to be avoided by cruisers on their own yachts?
2. Even if Soufriere is to be avoided, does that also mean that other harbours such as Rodney Bay are also to be avoided?
3. What actions are being taken on St. Lucia to identify, apprehend and ultimately prosecute the perpetrators?
4. Is St. Lucia attempting to upgrade policing in areas which have proven to be susceptible to crime against tourists, particularly cruisers?

Hmmm. Not easy to answer. If you want to minimize risk then yes, you should avoid St Lucia and St Vincent. It is not about petty theft and a hold-up in the streets to take your wallet. I'm talking about violent crime with death or life-long physical and emotional damage, serious stuff. Rodney Bay? A Dutch yacht was anchored near the beach (this is 15-20 years ago so this outbreak of violence is nothing new) when they were boarded, the husband beat to nearly death and the woman raped violently. I'm not even sure they survived it. I believe I read this in the book "Pirates aboard", but as Dutchman I also knew about this from reading Dutch news. This is the extreme end but it does happen. The regular robbing and minor beat up or tying down happens frequently. I had one of these scumbags hanging at my stern once trying to come aboard. He wisely changed his mind when seeing me approach armed with all 6'6" height and 300 lbs. (pure muscle ) plus some tools I keep for this. However, we never returned.

About actions that they are going to take. You must understand the bureaucracy that they have. It is nothing like what we understand under that term. It can take years until it comes to investigating this crime. I believe a cruiser has been in jail in St Lucia for a year already now because somebody said he hit a guy (who died from drowning or so afterwards) and they are still waiting for the case to come before court. No joke.

The only policing that I have seen happen after these episodes in the islands was in Trinidad and sponsored by local businesses in Chaguaramas. It lasted for a bit, then they ran out of gas for the outboard.
I believe the marina in Rodney Bay also did something once. It was rather clueless too, nothing came from it then, which is like 7 or 8 years ago; I've not been back there.

Charter boats (captained charter boats) have to go there because the customers want the Pitons etc. They hire local security to look after boats, dinghies, their customers and themselves. This is still not enough. The Blue Lagoon area in St Vincent has had true wild west scenes with people running and shooting each other, dinghies going at swimmers full speed, trying to kill them (!!) etc. This is not our idea of fun, so we avoid it.

All the above is from direct personal experience plus that of friends incl. charter boat captains. Unfortunately.

[H Romberg]

Originally Posted by Blue Stocking

Re-read my comments, and tell me if its clearer to you. I am a 67 yr old Bermudian tax payer who has worked in the industry. My last line summarizes the position.

Actually, you might be able to make a living in the service business. A charter boat maybe , trolling

Oh it's clear. Living on a remote island has costs as well as benefits. The choices of who to trade with are smaller and you might find yourself in a spot where the best deal available is to kowtow to a bunch of fatassed American tourists in shorts, socks and sandals with bad sunburns..... Or you could take that other job that is available........or start a business of some sort......or fish and sell your catch.

My point wasn't to lionize or demonize the cruise ships. Just to point out that the hype on both sides of the ship issue is mostly full of it.

[UnExCorp]

"

Can't we all just get along

?"

R.K. March 3, 1991.

After all,

we are "all" the rich & the poor. "That, is America/The Opportunity, too create ones' own destiny -Yes, as best that they can -And yes, some get the Financial help that they need too try to succeed in America! "Again, this too, is the greatness of America!

The Poor, in America, do not "All" stay that of poor, and the Rich do not "All" stay that of rich - Fortunes are made and lost each and every day "we" live life!

Without a doubt, there are some more fortunate than others -But, then again, comparatively, as Americans, we give a great deal to that of "Charities" of "All Types" ~ To where, do you think the majority of that Money comes from? I will tell/inform you: It come from, for the most part, from very Large Foundations (Endowments/Grants. ...I'm sure, that, most of you, could probably name a few) of all kinds and from "philanthropists!"

Wiki. A philanthropist is someone who devotes her or his time, money, or effort towards helping others. The label is most often applied to someone who gives large amounts to charity.

"As that, of Americans," "We are All Rich/Comparatively too that of the Whole World!"

Sincerely,

D.T.

(One who knows, from a Father/Dr. Robert O'Donnell M.D., M.G.H. ~ who Gives! )

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by tropicalescape

I belive the killing your enemy stuff started after the europeans got here ..Most indeginious peoples didnt do a lot of killing ,the height of victory in battle for "indians" was to simply touch the chief of the opposing tribe..Not saying that they didnt do it ,it just wasnt as commen as the "propaganda "would have us believe..It served the white man well to have the indians fight and kill each other,the old divide and conquer...

Carib Indians killed when they had the munchies.. they'd just about eaten all the previous tribe by the time the Spanish got there..

[DumnMad]

When rich meet poor in trade there can be an exchange of technology, knowledge, wealth and opportunity but if rich OR poor are lawless then its opportunities lost.
Don't just blame the dishonest of the wealthy country, many poor countries just have too much dishonesty to be able to trade or do business properly, with outsiders or within.

[letsgetsailing3]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

I agree with you 100%. The CF sociologists and philosophers should stop blaming the victims. The only people I've met on the many cruise ships we've been on earned their money via hard work.

That's funny, because I can't tell how hard people have worked by how much money they have, or if they're on a cruise ship, or if they own a yacht.

You don't have to blame the victim to sympathize with the overall plight of people on small islands in the Caribbean. They don't have equal opportunity. With an average salary of $6,000, they don't have quite the same shot at taking a cruise, unless it's to work on the cruise ship, which would be like hitting the jackpot for them.

You can feel free to write this off as random violence. Or you can take it as an opportunity to better understand the realities of the situation and economic challenges in St. Lucia.

[rognvald]

Originally Posted by captain58sailin

So what is the justification of the really wealthy that rob the rest of us? How do you think they got really wealthy? Take a look at any big multi national corporation.

So, Captain . . . let me see if I understand this . . .the way multinational corporations become wealthy is they rob the people? I thought they provided goods and/or services that people wanted to buy? I also thought they provided jobs for people in local communities worldwide and invigorated the local/national economies. I also know they are engaged in many civic and charitable causes that give back to the local communities and the countries in which they operate. Please explain what you mean when you say they rob to get wealthy. This is certainly an outrageous statement.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by rognvald

So, Captain . . . let me see if I understand this . . .the way multinational corporations become wealthy is they rob the people? I thought they provided goods and/or services that people wanted to buy? I also thought they provided jobs for people in local communities worldwide and invigorated the local/national economies. I also know they are engaged in many civic and charitable causes that give back to the local communities and the countries in which they operate. Please explain what you mean when you say they rob to get wealthy. This is certainly an outrageous statement.

Excellent! I couldn't have written it better... but trying to explain the fallacy of the zero sum game theory to believers of socialism is a hopeless task.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by letsgetsailing3

That's funny, because I can't tell how hard people have worked by how much money they have, or if they're on a cruise ship, or if they own a yacht.

Try talking with them over a nice dinner, that's what cruising is all about... meeting people, spending time with them, getting to know them through pleasant conversation... sharing ideas with people from all around the world.

Get off your computer once in a while.

[sailorboy1]

I have own stocks and have 401k with money invested. Just who is this corporation you accuse of being an evil thief? I assume you are talking about me.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by Don L

I have own stocks and have 401k with money invested. Just who is this corporation you accuse of being an evil thief? I assume you are talking about me.

Nice one Don

[rognvald]

Originally Posted by zeehag

rognvald--thankyou for the public spanking for no reason..please learn to think outside the box. mebbe travel to these dangerous locations then pan folks for their words after witnessing reality.....

ok lets see if he reports this posting..lol..i didnt report his, so, we see what kinda innards he has.

ok, so there are bandidos in pair a dice. duh. we takes our chances, as per fine print in the event of cruise ship travel, and we sails our boats into whatever is there. is all our own individual choice.

yáll pan me for dark humor..xxxxxxxxxx..

those who understand the need for folks to lighten up the load and reduce stress--hoo yaahh....geaux...

as for the wealthy robbing the rest--speak to your governing body--they started it...which is another point altogether......

Zeehag, among educated people in civil conversation you have an obligation to be responsible for your words. I explained in an earlier post that I didn't feel that rape, murder or robbery were appropriate subjects for humor. . . dark or light. Secondly, by your own admission, as intimated in your words above, you are an extremely worldly person that has traveled extensively and probably have a far better grasp of humanity and human personality and psychology than do I, so . . . I graciously concede your superiority in all matters therein. Lastly, I truly tried to follow your above remarks in lines 5-7 but you apparently have command of a form of English syntax and morphology that resides in some yet unknown text similar to the Rosetta Stone or the Mayan Codex that once found will allow all men/women of a curious nature to decipher your cryptic, other worldly command of the King's English. But, being a man of relentless perserverance and dogged determination, I hope one day to be the one who will share this profound and enigmatic discovery with the English speaking world. In the words of the late Don Cornelius . . . I wish you Love, Peace and Soullllllllllllllllllllllllllll!

[Woodsy]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

If the shoe fits....

You wernt a master chief BM on the YoYo at any point where you?

[Finistere]

Originally Posted by captain58sailin

So what is the justification of the really wealthy that rob the rest of us? How do you think they got really wealthy? Take a look at any big multi national corporation.

So who did you rob to afford a 53' yacht?