Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 15-04-2013, 14:34   #31
Registered User
 
rognvald's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Summer: In the land of Wooly Mammoths
Boat: Pearson 34-II
Posts: 2,252
Images: 2
Re: Mass Robbery in St. Lucia

Quote:
Originally Posted by rebel heart View Post
Regarding the term "expat", a friend of mine the other day told me:

"Only white people are expats. We call brown people immigrants when they do the same."

RebelHeart, I think your friend is suffering from what psychologists call "White Guilt." There were thousands of Black "expatriates" who went to Europe to live and pursue their art during the flowering of America's artistic Renaissance and continue to do so today. In music, tenor saxophonists Dexter Gordon, Bud Powell, Coleman Hawkins and Sidney Bechet; dancer Josephine Baker; vocalist Nina Simone and writers Richard Wright, James Baldwin and Langston Hughes. These are but a smattering of the famous Black/Brown Americans who went to Europe and were aptly named "expatriates" by world Historians. In my opinion, there is a dedicated proselytization by some to demonize White Europeans/Americans for their successes in the last 4,000 years of recorded history. This is what I call true racism and your friend is a guilty perpetrator as he and his kind seek to distort the truth to promote their social agenda.
__________________

__________________
rognvald is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-04-2013, 14:41   #32
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 2,243
Re: Mass Robbery in St. Lucia

Quote:
Originally Posted by rognvald View Post
BlueStocking,
I think there are areas that are appropriate for sarcasm and/or humor and those that are not. Violence against the person: murder, rape and robbery is one of those categories. We live in an ever changing world where violence is becoming commonplace--Mexico, Central America, South America, the Caribbean and yes, the US. When people become desensitized to violence, the world becomes a far more dangerous place. Good luck and good sailing.
If you meant to suggest that violent crime is on the increase in the US, you are quite wrong.

Violent crime in the US peaked about 10 years ago, and has been falling steadily since then :

Crime in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
__________________

__________________
MarkSF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-04-2013, 14:52   #33
Registered User
 
rognvald's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Summer: In the land of Wooly Mammoths
Boat: Pearson 34-II
Posts: 2,252
Images: 2
Re: Mass Robbery in St. Lucia

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkSF View Post
If you meant to suggest that violent crime is on the increase in the US, you are quite wrong.

Violent crime in the US peaked about 10 years ago, and has been falling steadily since then :

Crime in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Mark, as a native born Chicagoan, I must say that violence is part of Chicago life. The new police chief, Gary McCarthy, has done a fine job this year in reducing the unconscionable murder rate--largely due to the turf wars among Black and Hispanic gangs. I would not argue with your statistics but would say that it is not unfair to say that America is a violent, crime ridden country albeit, the majority of crimes occur within our country's inner cities. If you discounted the crime in Chicago, LA, Miami, New York, etc., we'd be a pretty peaceful nation.
__________________
rognvald is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-04-2013, 14:56   #34
Freelance Delivery Skipper..
 
boatman61's Avatar

Community Sponsor
Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: UK/Portugal
Posts: 20,191
Images: 2
Send a message via Skype™ to boatman61
pirate Re: Mass Robbery in St. Lucia

Quote:
Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey View Post
No and No.

No, of course they should not be targets of violence - not unless they refuse to meet the demands of the freemarket, then it's game on. The strong take from the weak, that's how it is, always has been and always will be. Being on the short end of the freemarket can come as a surprise to some, especially those that don't realise that money can buy a spot higher up the food chain but simply having any doesn't automatically give you that spot. A dollar (or Euro) note does not work like a Juju charm.......errrr, actually it does!

No, they have no rights (to dignity, freedom or to anything else) - "rights" are what people give to each other on a reciprocal basis. If "you" are part of an economic system (even though as a small and insignificant part) that is based around keeping others with less than "you", then gotta accept that as you ain't dishing out the right to dignity and freedom you can't expect it to be offered to you.

And yes, I am a capitalist .

Wot ^^^HE^^^ Sed... or pretty close to it...
When the chances are prison food and accommodation is likely better than home and most of your mate's might be in there.... stopping and relieving a coachload of 'rich' tourists of jewellery and cash might seem a bit of a hoot..
Kinda like a Win, Win ... just one win is bigger and better..
__________________


Born To Be Wild
boatman61 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 15-04-2013, 15:03   #35
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Sailing the Caribbean
Boat: Switch 51
Posts: 1,498
Re: Mass Robbery in St. Lucia

Quote:
Originally Posted by foolishsailor View Post
Your reply is disingenuous at best. ...

No, I didnt agree with you. I rebutted your central premise and direct pejorative attack on a single group and clarified it with a less titillating but more accurate statement regarding the differences between wealthy and poor nations - especially the part about perception which you clearly missed as many nations that are perceived poor by other nations do not have that same self perception.

Please do not assume that we agree or that you speak for me as we clearly have different views.
Ziiing!!!
__________________
SVNeko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-04-2013, 15:07   #36
Registered User
 
rognvald's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Summer: In the land of Wooly Mammoths
Boat: Pearson 34-II
Posts: 2,252
Images: 2
Re: Mass Robbery in St. Lucia

"No, they have no rights (to dignity, freedom or to anything else) - "rights" are what people give to each other on a reciprocal basis. If "you" are part of an economic system (even though as a small and insignificant part) that is based around keeping others with less than "you", then gotta accept that as you ain't dishing out the right to dignity and freedom you can't expect it to be offered to you. David Old Jersey



David, then based upon your above remarks, without reciprocity there are no rights? If that were the case, then Anarchy would be the rule of law and Civilization non-existent. Example:
"Hey, Man. You don't give me no respect! Now, gimme your money or your life." How would you like to live in that world?
__________________
rognvald is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-04-2013, 15:19   #37
Freelance Delivery Skipper..
 
boatman61's Avatar

Community Sponsor
Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: UK/Portugal
Posts: 20,191
Images: 2
Send a message via Skype™ to boatman61
pirate Re: Mass Robbery in St. Lucia

Quote:
Originally Posted by rognvald View Post
"No, they have no rights (to dignity, freedom or to anything else) - "rights" are what people give to each other on a reciprocal basis. If "you" are part of an economic system (even though as a small and insignificant part) that is based around keeping others with less than "you", then gotta accept that as you ain't dishing out the right to dignity and freedom you can't expect it to be offered to you. David Old Jersey



David, then based upon your above remarks, without reciprocity there are no rights? If that were the case, then Anarchy would be the rule of law and Civilization non-existent. Example:
"Hey, Man. You don't give me no respect! Now, gimme your money or your life." How would you like to live in that world?
I thought we started to live like that already when the 'str8 folk' started surrendering the inner city's and centre's to the bad guy's.. likely you'll have not noticed if you don't go there after dark any more..
__________________


Born To Be Wild
boatman61 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 15-04-2013, 15:23   #38
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,440
Re: Mass Robbery in St. Lucia

Quote:
Originally Posted by foolishsailor
Your reply is disingenuous at best. ...

No, I didnt agree with you. I rebutted your central premise and direct pejorative attack on a single group and clarified it with a less titillating but more accurate statement regarding the differences between wealthy and poor nations - especially the part about perception which you clearly missed as many nations that are perceived poor by other nations do not have that same self perception.

Please do not assume that we agree or that you speak for me as we clearly have different views.


Ziiing!!!
---------
Uh, pretty much a zing, if you discount that half of what he said was B.S.

I didn't miss that other wealthy countries might fall prey to the same misguided assessment of wealth, but merely pointed out that Americans have that tendency.

Please don't encourage his buffoonery.
__________________
letsgetsailing3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-04-2013, 15:26   #39
CF Adviser
 
Bash's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: sausalito
Boat: 14 meter sloop
Posts: 7,260
Re: Mass Robbery in St. Lucia

Quote:
Originally Posted by letsgetsailing3 View Post
Uh, pretty much a zing, if you discount that half of what he said was B.S.
Yikes. It must be low tide here on Cruisers' Forum.

Here's what the US Department of State currently says about St. Lucia:

CRIME: Crime, including armed robbery, does occur and is rising in St. Lucia. Violent crime is often connected to narcotics trafficking. Petty crime also occurs, with tourists being targeted often. Efforts by the St. Lucian authorities to improve public safety on the island are ongoing. Visitors should inquire about their hotelís security arrangements before making reservations. Valuables left unattended on beaches and in rental cars are vulnerable to theft. Visitors should use caution, especially at night and in less frequented areas.

Let's hope it doesn't get worse. I've only spent a couple of weeks sailing/diving in St. Lucia, and would love to return someday.
__________________
cruising is entirely about showing up--in boat shoes.
Bash is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-04-2013, 15:32   #40
Senior Cruiser
 
Kenomac's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Somewhere in the Adriatic Sea
Boat: Oyster 53 Cutter
Posts: 8,510
Re: Mass Robbery in St. Lucia

Quote:
Originally Posted by rognvald View Post
This is truly a horrible and insensitive remark concerning people who have been robbed at gunpoint while on vacation.Firstly, probably the majority of people on those cruise ships are not "over rich" but hard working people who want to take a nice vacation in the sun. But, are you saying that people who are "over rich" should be targets of violence from those who are not? Do they not deserve the right of dignity and freedom from assault? Is it because they live better than most because of hard work or inheritance and this is not fair since everyone should live at the same economic level in life and share in a communal misery. I believe they have tried that approach in China, Russia, and Cuba and history has recorded how successful they were. Rob the rich, give to the poor? Level the playing field? Power to the people? Evil rich, noble poor? Let them eat cake? I hope I never have to live in your twisted view of the world.
Agree 100%. Well said.
__________________
Kenomac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-04-2013, 15:35   #41
Senior Cruiser
 
Kenomac's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Somewhere in the Adriatic Sea
Boat: Oyster 53 Cutter
Posts: 8,510
Re: Mass Robbery in St. Lucia

Quote:
Originally Posted by letsgetsailing3 View Post
What's "over rich"? Americans are known throughout the world as being wealthy relative to the rest of the world, and being too naive to realize it.

Those nice, hard working people enjoy a standard of living that is higher than most of the world's population. They're on a cruise, but don't feel wealthy.

They don't "deserve" to be robbed, but your comment shows a need of better awareness of their wealth relative to the rest of the world. Google "core and periphery".
Total socialist B.S.
__________________
Kenomac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-04-2013, 15:39   #42
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,440
Re: Mass Robbery in St. Lucia

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenomac View Post
Total socialist B.S.

Feel free to actually point out something that was B.S.

I'm completely capitalist, but it's kind of dumb to pretend that the poor people of the world aren't exploited, or that Americans aren't a bit oblivious.

By the way, nice boat.
__________________
letsgetsailing3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-04-2013, 15:41   #43
Nearly an old salt
 
goboatingnow's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 13,649
Images: 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by rognvald View Post

This is truly a horrible and insensitive remark concerning people who have been robbed at gunpoint while on vacation.Firstly, probably the majority of people on those cruise ships are not "over rich" but hard working people who want to take a nice vacation in the sun. But, are you saying that people who are "over rich" should be targets of violence from those who are not? Do they not deserve the right of dignity and freedom from assault? Is it because they live better than most because of hard work or inheritance and this is not fair since everyone should live at the same economic level in life and share in a communal misery. I believe they have tried that approach in China, Russia, and Cuba and history has recorded how successful they were. Rob the rich, give to the poor? Level the playing field? Power to the people? Evil rich, noble poor? Let them eat cake? I hope I never have to live in your twisted view of the world.
All through history the rich accumulate wealth disproportionately, never stopping to examine the consequences , until the greater mass take ( some) of it back from them. Being gong on for 100s of years.

Not condoning it. But I've been all over the carribean, and in most countries its a third world environment attached to a first world tourist business. Believe you me the locals are angry. Angry people do strange things. Do not underestimate the effect some " hard working white " guy walking around with enough IT toys to feed a whole family for a year has on the locals.

Its not a sustainable system , it will blow

Dave
__________________
Check out my new blog on smart boat technology, networking and gadgets for the connected sailor! - http://smartboats.tumblr.com
goboatingnow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-04-2013, 15:42   #44
Nearly an old salt
 
goboatingnow's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 13,649
Images: 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by rognvald View Post

BlueStocking,
I think there are areas that are appropriate for sarcasm and/or humor and those that are not. Violence against the person: murder, rape and robbery is one of those categories. We live in an ever changing world where violence is becoming commonplace--Mexico, Central America, South America, the Caribbean and yes, the US. When people become desensitized to violence, the world becomes a far more dangerous place. Good luck and good sailing.
Violence has always been commonplace , what's not is the instant news system that transmits every detail to the palm of your hand in seconds

Dave
__________________
Check out my new blog on smart boat technology, networking and gadgets for the connected sailor! - http://smartboats.tumblr.com
goboatingnow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-04-2013, 15:58   #45
Nearly an old salt
 
goboatingnow's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 13,649
Images: 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by rognvald View Post
"No, they have no rights (to dignity, freedom or to anything else) - "rights" are what people give to each other on a reciprocal basis. If "you" are part of an economic system (even though as a small and insignificant part) that is based around keeping others with less than "you", then gotta accept that as you ain't dishing out the right to dignity and freedom you can't expect it to be offered to you. David Old Jersey

David, then based upon your above remarks, without reciprocity there are no rights? If that were the case, then Anarchy would be the rule of law and Civilization non-existent. Example:
"Hey, Man. You don't give me no respect! Now, gimme your money or your life." How would you like to live in that world?
You do live in that world , and you take a proportion of your wealth , hand it in taxes , which part of goes to law enforcement , which in essence protects you ( more correctly your money) from " that world" again the strong ( the wealthy a d its law enforcement ) take from the weak.

The difference is you try and dress it up as all nice and right , ( and to some extent this is an American weakness, you ( us) want to dominate , but you want people to like you, while you're doing it ) DOJ just calls it as it is.

In the old days such attacks would simply have been countered by a few gun boats and a decent bombardment of the capital of the island. Many things have been lost to " civility" I'm afraid.


I had a very instructive tour around Barbados , a few years ago, a third world country , with a indigenous population that had no land ownership or rights ( shanties built on movable block foundations stations) living cheek by jowl with multi-millionaire apartments. It was cheaper for us to hire a cook then buy a meal in a restaurant.

You think this is a sustainable situation. !!!



Dave
__________________

__________________
Check out my new blog on smart boat technology, networking and gadgets for the connected sailor! - http://smartboats.tumblr.com
goboatingnow is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 06:10.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.