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Old 23-10-2012, 21:24   #1
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Man Overboard

Question for the Experienced Yachties and old salts.

This leads on from a discussion in another thread- but didn't want to hi-jack someone else thread

As a former instructor and commercial sailor, I used to teach to the old 80% of MOBs were found with their fly open rule. But in my own experience of 35 years of racing and cruising, I have never had a MOB from someone peeing over the side. Not to say it wont happen, it simply hasnt. I have been on boats all my life and have experienced about 11-12 MOBs that I can recall. Usually, in fair weather- as is the case.

In your own experience, how many MOBs have "you" had that relate to someone peeing overboard compared to other MOBs?

In 2011, there were 63 sailboat related deaths in the USA. 9 of which were a result of MOB. source page #41 http://www.uscgboating.org/assets/1/...ations/557.PDF

I am curious to see if the 80% rule still exists. Or whether we are simply focusing so hard on one situation, we don't focus enough on other dangers that create an MOB. For instance, when running square down wind on a port tack, how many skippers allow their crew to walk to and from the bow via "the easy way" the starboard side and risk them being hit by the boom in an accidental gybe? Something far more dangerous than peeing over the side.

Your thoughts?
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Old 23-10-2012, 21:34   #2
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Re: Man Overboard

IMO, this 80% statistics is a huge exageration. However, the point is to highlight the danger of routine actions when both hands are busy.

For example, the only one MOB I saw happening underway was showering at the stern while we were motoring in calm weather after having anchored for swimming. By the way, he didn't let go of the shower and the hose held, so we towed him for a few seconds before stopping.

Alain
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Old 23-10-2012, 21:39   #3
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Re: Man Overboard

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Originally Posted by Hydra View Post
IMO, this 80% statistics is a huge exageration. However, the point is to highlight the danger of routine actions when both hands are busy.

For example, the only one MOB I saw happening underway was showering at the stern while we were motoring in calm weather after having anchored for swimming. By the way, he didn't let go of the shower and the hose held, so we towed him for a few seconds before stopping.

Alain
Thanks, I notice you mentioned calm weather. Which certainly seems to be the case as people are more relaxed and more likely to be careless. In a blow, they are white knuckled as they move around the boat.
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Old 23-10-2012, 21:40   #4
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Re: Man Overboard

Only time I've ever seen it was a guy falling in while "walking" a boat out the dock. He went to hop on, held on for a few seconds, then fell in the water. Fortunately the boat was backing away and someone helped him get back up on the dock.

I went past a boat sailing by itself that the USCG and USN had search aircraft buzzing all around looking for the guy, but they never found anything.

Good friend of mine had a long time sailing buddy that disappeared on watch. Dude came up from a nap and the cockpit was empty. Hearing that story scared me a bit.
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Old 23-10-2012, 22:06   #5
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Re: Man Overboard

The one statistic I can say is true, and that I always tell people on board my boat, is this: In all of the MOB incidents studied over a 5 year period, 100% of the people who did not go overboard survived the incident. Moral of the story: Keep your lanyard on.
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Old 23-10-2012, 23:02   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rebel heart

Good friend of mine had a long time sailing buddy that disappeared on watch. Dude came up from a nap and the cockpit was empty. Hearing that story scared me a bit.
wOw!

Makes one want to be pretty cautious. If you knew someone was sleeping below, and nature called, over the side, in more ways than one. How about pissing in a bucket and then bucket over the side to rince it off.
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Old 23-10-2012, 23:18   #7
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Re: Man Overboard

Quote:
Originally Posted by ozskipper View Post
Question for the Experienced Yachties and old salts.

This leads on from a discussion in another thread- but didn't want to hi-jack someone else thread

As a former instructor and commercial sailor, I used to teach to the old 80% of MOBs were found with their fly open rule. But in my own experience of 35 years of racing and cruising, I have never had a MOB from someone peeing over the side. Not to say it wont happen, it simply hasnt. I have been on boats all my life and have experienced about 11-12 MOBs that I can recall. Usually, in fair weather- as is the case.

In your own experience, how many MOBs have "you" had that relate to someone peeing overboard compared to other MOBs?

In 2011, there were 63 sailboat related deaths in the USA. 9 of which were a result of MOB. source page #41 http://www.uscgboating.org/assets/1/...ations/557.PDF

I am curious to see if the 80% rule still exists. Or whether we are simply focusing so hard on one situation, we don't focus enough on other dangers that create an MOB. For instance, when running square down wind on a port tack, how many skippers allow their crew to walk to and from the bow via "the easy way" the starboard side and risk them being hit by the boom in an accidental gybe? Something far more dangerous than peeing over the side.

Your thoughts?

I've suspected that it makes a great "sailing" story. Did have a friend announce he was "going up to the bow," but since he was very familiar with where we were and KNEW the boat had to turn to enter the channel, I was very surprised when he came back and said "Why the hell did you turn THEN? You almost threw me in!"

Well experienced sailor, I said ... "Why weren't you holding on? You know this is a bouncy boat ..." He said, I was ... with one hand.

I always ask men to use the head. I have been told "It's rude." No, it's not. It's rude (and foolish) to put yourself at risk.

That said, I think that 80% thing may be the sailing equivalent of the "big one that got away." I hear all sorts of numbers with it.
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Old 23-10-2012, 23:27   #8
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Re: Man Overboard

I think that the story about x% of MOB victims being found with their flies open is a pure urban legend. I am sure it's possible to go overboard that way, but I've never heard of a single real case.

As far as I know, most MOB's go overboard by being thrown off in a knockdown, being whacked by the boom in an unintentional gybe, being bucked off when a big wave hits, or being washed off the deck and through the lifelines when a big mass of green water comes on board, and other cases like that. Few survive when going over is caused by rough weather -- the rough weather then becomes a severe complicating factor in finding and getting the MOB back on board.
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Old 23-10-2012, 23:34   #9
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Re: Man Overboard

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Originally Posted by GaryMayo View Post
wOw!

Makes one want to be pretty cautious. If you knew someone was sleeping below, and nature called, over the side, in more ways than one. How about pissing in a bucket and then bucket over the side to rince it off.
Yeah obviously no one knows exactly what happened, but the guy straight up vanished. I never knew anyone that had a first hand encounter like that so it definitely brought it home for me that yeah, it happens.
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Old 23-10-2012, 23:40   #10
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Re: Man Overboard

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rakuflames View Post
I've suspected that it makes a great "sailing" story. Did have a friend announce he was "going up to the bow," but since he was very familiar with where we were and KNEW the boat had to turn to enter the channel, I was very surprised when he came back and said "Why the hell did you turn THEN? You almost threw me in!"

Well experienced sailor, I said ... "Why weren't you holding on? You know this is a bouncy boat ..." He said, I was ... with one hand.

I always ask men to use the head. I have been told "It's rude." No, it's not. It's rude (and foolish) to put yourself at risk.
I agree. No one pees over the side on my boat when we're underway (at anchor is different). Sometimes you have to insist, because a lot of men get seasick down below and are afraid to admit it, but I do insist, because it's not worth the risk (nor the prospect of pee on my topsides).

"Going up to the bow"? That sounds like an odd place to do it. Unless you're sailing DDW, the bow is rarely the leewardmost part of the boat. You need to tell your crew, in any case, what has been known for thousands of years: Vir prudens non contra ventum mingit.
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Old 23-10-2012, 23:47   #11
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Re: Man Overboard

My only direct observation of a man overboard was when under light winds the boat accidentally jibed while I (the captain and only experience sailor onboard) was leaning on the deck and the boom spanked my butt causing me to fall head first into the water (no lifelines). The crew (wife and her parents) immediately drew me from the water. No injury, but lost my eye glasses. Gee, was that 30+ something years ago!
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Old 24-10-2012, 00:12   #12
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Re: Man Overboard

Two words: Pee Bottle. When I'm delivering a boat, usually double handed, and either it's too rough for the a/p or the vessel hasn't one, I always have a pee bottle in the cockpit, day and night. Off crew is sleeping and won't wake him for a piss.
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Old 24-10-2012, 00:22   #13
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Re: Man Overboard

Something worth doing on occasion until you get good at is to get a 25 litre container like this

put approx 22 litres of water in it and as you are sailing along one day knock it over the side without warning the crew that a MOB event is about to take place.
(Because it has only a small amount of air only a small portion of the container will be visible as it sinks below and resurfaces)

Call MOB and see how long it takes to get back up to it and actually get it back on board.

Now think how you would do that successfully with an unconscious body that weighs a hell of a lot more than 22kg.
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Old 24-10-2012, 00:30   #14
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Sailing with my dad and crew from Brisbane to Lord Howe Is one of the crew fell overboard while peeing at the stern. Recovered ok but scary cos big waves and swell. I have always added another rail to the stern such that is waist high for me. Still pee over the stern. Slow learner i guess.
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Old 24-10-2012, 00:31   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Jeffry
Two words: Pee Bottle. When I'm delivering a boat, usually double handed, and either it's too rough for the a/p or the vessel hasn't one, I always have a pee bottle in the cockpit, day and night. Off crew is sleeping and won't wake him for a piss.
Absolutely. Devices available for women to enable this too.
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