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Old 25-10-2012, 08:02   #46
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Re: Man Overboard

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Originally Posted by Kenomac View Post
MOB drill with an actual human overboard? Maybe a good idea with a smaller sailboat without a prop of any kind. But on a larger vessel, I don't think it's a good idea with an inexperienced, adrenaline pumped up crew doing the Keystone cop drill. I personally wouldn't want to be the volunteer guy in the water about to be run over by a 50,000 pound boat and ground up by a bowthruster or 30 inch stern prop.

Point of information: On a sailboat, it's preferred and safer to recover the MOB with the engine turned off and under sail power alone if possible, in order to eliminate the possibility of tangling line, rope or human in the prop. Or if not possible, the engine needs to be turned off on the final approach to the MOB.

Of course, for final approach, but ... first throw a marker. Then press the MOB. Then I *would* turn on the motor. You know where any lines are going to drag and whether they're likely to get caught in the prop. I drag a floating line anyway and would certainly put it out if it wasn't out already. With a long drag line, you can circle the person, stay well away from them and still drag that line very near them. I put floats on my line with reflective tape to make it more visible when light is bad.

Everyone should have a light on their life vests, and I would insist on that if sailing at night -- for instance, the run from Key West or the Tortugas to Ft. Myers/Naples. It's not hard to use an engine intelligently and the boat can be more easily steered accurately that way, especially if not everyone on the boat is experienced.

If I had to sail I would, but you can move away from a MOB very quickly, and an engine can turn the boat and return it to the area very efficiently.
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Old 25-10-2012, 08:12   #47
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Re: Man Overboard

Man Overboard recovery under sail video:



A lot less to go terribly wrong.
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Old 25-10-2012, 08:23   #48
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Re: Man Overboard

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Originally Posted by Sindbad View Post

And two were knocked by the boom over board, during an accidental jibe.
There has been a few references to flying jibes and the danger they present. I know that I had not been strapped in during my accident I would have been a MOB in the middle of the night with multiple injuries and a unseasoned crew. No doubt I would be dead right now...
Something to think about next time you unstrap yourself to go handle the jib...
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Old 25-10-2012, 08:33   #49
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Re: Man Overboard

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Originally Posted by s/v Beth View Post
There has been a few references to flying jibes and the danger they present. I know that I had not been strapped in during my accident I would have been a MOB in the middle of the night with multiple injuries and a unseasoned crew. No doubt I would be dead right now...
Something to think about next time you unstrap yourself to go handle the jib...

Bring the mainsail to nearly center before doing that. I always do that and teach people on my boat to do that also. On my boat at least, the boat tacks easily with the headsail working nearly alone and with the mainsail pulled in nearly to center. It still snaps over, but not very far.
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Old 25-10-2012, 18:59   #50
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Re: Man Overboard

Yeah we know the cure, at least I won't die by boom next time....
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Old 25-10-2012, 19:25   #51
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Re: Man Overboard

I got that 80 % off the training instructor when I sat for my Boat licence relating to dead Mobs with their flys open,

It appears from the replys on here that it was a Furphy,

But it was more to reinforce the habit of always keeping a solid hand hold at all times,

I have been hit on the head with my boom on my little cat, Paper Tiger,

So right, wrong or other wise, I keep my boom on my Gemini tied off so it cant swing, Its safer that way,
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Old 25-10-2012, 19:34   #52
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Re: Man Overboard

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Yeah we know the cure, at least I won't die by boom next time....
Yeah -- find something more original!

How are you doing?
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Old 25-10-2012, 20:18   #53
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Re: Man Overboard

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Originally Posted by Rakuflames View Post
Of course, for final approach, but ... first throw a marker. Then press the MOB. Then I *would* turn on the motor. You know where any lines are going to drag and whether they're likely to get caught in the prop. I drag a floating line anyway and would certainly put it out if it wasn't out already. With a long drag line, you can circle the person, stay well away from them and still drag that line very near them. I put floats on my line with reflective tape to make it more visible when light is bad.

Everyone should have a light on their life vests, and I would insist on that if sailing at night -- for instance, the run from Key West or the Tortugas to Ft. Myers/Naples. It's not hard to use an engine intelligently and the boat can be more easily steered accurately that way, especially if not everyone on the boat is experienced.

If I had to sail I would, but you can move away from a MOB very quickly, and an engine can turn the boat and return it to the area very efficiently.
Just wanted to confirm that if you do drag a line it should be poly propylene. Line that floats which will be easier for the swimmer to locate and help to stay ourt of your prop.
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Old 25-10-2012, 20:29   #54
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Re: Man Overboard

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Originally Posted by Richard5 View Post
It is just this reason why I voluntarily throw myself into the water when instructing or simply to practice. Hats and other flotsam are good for training purposes but there is nothing like a real person overboard at risk to see what the crew has learned. No one gets pumped about retrieving a hat but they sure do get saucer-eyed when it's a person.

I have seen the cluster of Keystone Cops on deck and have felt safer while in the water. Law of primacy kicks in during high stress. You want to simulate that stress level in order to expose the deficiencies and give talking points useful in further training. Sometimes I have played unconcious.

That bit of MOB inside the basin with restricted manuevering room and the crew speaking German gave me a laugh. I am happy only ego was injured but that was a great lesson. Layers of clusters and still a person in the water.

Too, it is illustrative to see how the crew will reorganize when they are down one. Someone has to take lead and it can be quite telling to see how one steps up to take charge.
Your description of Keystone Cops reminds me of an event I'm embarrassed to relate as I was the MOB. My wife, myself and another couple had just rented a Cal28 out of Victoria and I was familiarizing them with the boat being the only experienced sailor among us. One of the more important drills was the MOB exercise during which we each took a turn at retrieving a fender both under sail and under power.
After about 2 hours of drills, we got underway towards the Gulf Islands and as we entered the Sound, the wind piped up beautifully. I stood up in the cockpit enoying every minute of what was promising to be wonderful week of cruising when the breeze caught my cap and off it went landing in the dingy we were towing. My wife took the wheel as I went outboard of the lifelines, pulled in the dingy to hop aboard and retrieve my favorite cap. My manly leap into the dingy corresponded with a slight movement as I left the mother ship throwing my well planned leap into a fumbling crash on the gunnel of the skiff and into the water. I immediately popped to the surface to hear my wife screaming at the top of her lungs, 'Man Overboard'!
We were making about 3-4 knots underway and i was amazed at how fast the distance between me and the boat increased. There was a mad scramble aboard the Cal28 which to my surprise did a 180 and came right back on the reciprocal to pick up the stupid skipper. Unfortunately, the crew, newly trained in MOB recovery, forgot to slow the boat and as she came down aimed right for my head. I hollered to ease the sheets, but to no avail. I swam a couple of strokes to avoid getting skewred by the bow and managed to grab a stantion on the leeward side. With the help of two of the other crew, I managed to get a leg over the toerail and rolled aboard much to the gales of laughter from myself and the rest of the crew. Unless you have tried it, getting out of the water without help even at a very slow speed is vitually imposslible.
Lessons learned: wear a PDF, when retrieving anything from a dingy, stop the boat and secure the dingy along side, everybody has a chance to drive during a MOB drill under sail and power, keep your head gear secure with a chin strap or collar clip, forget about acting like you know everything (I was in my 20's). Please add to this if you feel inclined.
Finally:
Please, remember,
When at sea,
Even men'
Sit down to Pee.
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Old 25-10-2012, 20:33   #55
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Re: Man Overboard

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Originally Posted by Captain Jeffry View Post
Just wanted to confirm that if you do drag a line it should be poly propylene. Line that floats which will be easier for the swimmer to locate and help to stay ourt of your prop.

It is polypropolene, which is really hard to hold on to when wet, so I put figure 8 loops in it.

It being polypro, the knots didn't want to stay in -- the polypro wanted to make its own, highly dysfunctional, knots.

I sewed the knots in with waxed thread.
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Old 25-10-2012, 21:11   #56
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Re: Man Overboard

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Originally Posted by Rakuflames View Post
It is polypropolene, which is really hard to hold on to when wet, so I put figure 8 loops in it.

It being polypro, the knots didn't want to stay in -- the polypro wanted to make its own, highly dysfunctional, knots.

I sewed the knots in with waxed thread.

A couple of "bowlines on the bight" would also suffice and not undo themselves.
Bowline on a Bight | How to Tie a Bowline on a Bight | Boating Knots

A monkeys fist at the bitter end also creates a "slightly" weighted end which helps if you need to cast the line. Plus its also easy to hold.

Monkey's Fist | How to tie the Monkey's Fist | Decorative Knots
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