Lifting Out MOB Casualty Using Life Jacket Harness

[estarzinger]

[QUOTE=hpeer;2680289 come up with ways to fix things ourselves [/QUOTE]

Back (a decade or so ago) when I had active contacts and friends in the Volvo and Vendee, the guys (and their riggers) made custom harnesses, which they wore when they could get away with not having on sponsor branded equipment.

Super light and super 'smooth (no lumps or bumps) - you did not know you had one on and you could sleep in them and strong (all dyneema, mostly 6mm cord but also some webbing where you needed load spreading.)

I don't know what they are doing today - the Volvo has changed beyond all recognition and they are being videoed 7x24 so they might not be able to do this now - the vendee is still pretty close to what it was and I guess the guys there still are.

[Carlos Molinelli]

Naïve question: if lifting the MOB from the hook in the chest is dangerous for the column and heart, could be used another hook on the low back?
The MOB would fold at the waist.
Sorry if it is stupid.

[ZULU40]

Originally Posted by Carlos Molinelli

Naïve question: if lifting the MOB from the hook in the chest is dangerous for the column and heart, could be used another hook on the low back?
The MOB would fold at the waist.
Sorry if it is stupid.

well that could leave the casualty face down, I dont think we want that

The problem with PFDs is that
1/ the clasp strength has been brought into question,
2/ that hauling people upwards has a tendency to pull the PFD off the casualty,

3/ and that the lifting point could stress a casualty to the point of heart failure

I can also see a problem of having a crotch strap, as this would be far from universal. What about sailors that use your boat and bring their own PFD and it doesnt have a crotch strap, and what happens when making a rescue with another stricken boat and you need to get crew out of the water.

I dont think there is much of a question here, the boat needs to have capacity to get people out of the water with her own devices.

I cant see a reason why a double sling wouldnt work, but the horror of it is that its likely requires having your own crew in the water to assist.

I think a sail would work, or some such prepared tarp
Not perfect video however something to be learned here
apologies for the edit screw up

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4q1-Qb-6bBw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMicZuy0A8I

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4q1-Qb-6bBw

[RonT]

A sailing school in California that did daily Lifesling recoveries added a strap that eases the strain of being lifted under the arms while raising the victim’s legs bringing the body to the preferred horizontal position for the hoist. (similar to the photo in todays post) The victim needs to know/be trained how to deploy the strap if he/she is able. Alternatively, the strap might be pulled under the knees by someone on deck or in the water.

“Thigh Strap. A LIFESLING can be modified with the addition of a thigh strap to provide more support for the lower body and legs. An adjustable strap made of 1.5 inch webbing is attached to the D Rings or towing loops of the LIFESLING and run outboard of the sling, where it is held in place by small pieces of velcro.

Before the victim is hoisted aboard he/she must pull this webbing from the outer circumference of the LIFESLING and lower it to a point behind the knees, adjusting it as necessary for fit and comfort. This enables the victim to be hoisted aboard in a safer, nearly horizontal position that is also more comfortable than a strictly vertical lift. ”This hint plus five other adjustments to the Lifesling can be found by searching for Lifesling Owner’s Preparation Guide.

Another source on this subject is the report the San Francisco Bay MOB trials done in 2005 where every kind of retrieval known was tried.

[puffcard]

We had a very big person in the water who could not get out, they were cold and too tired. Used a Lifesling with 4-part block and tackle, along with an added sail-tie around the lower butt to help support weight. I was amazed how long it took to get her out. Really thought it was going to be close to hyperthermia, over 45min to get her out of the water. This is something that everyone should try, think we could do it in half the time now.

I've fallen overboard twice while underway and few times at docks. Once slipped off the front of a mud barge, luckily to the side and once off my 37ft sailboat. We were sailing along at +6kts, flat offshore wind in the Chesapeake Bay. The boat was heeled over, self-steering, prefect day. The anchor was rattling, so I went forward to secure. I was without life jacket or harness. Right after securing the anchor, I stood up and this wave/wake hit the boat. Next thing I knew I was four feet in the air sliding down the jib. Now Now I'm holding on the lifelines, stanchions bent over, getting dragged through the water at 6kts. Glasses and hat gone, short around my ankles. I yelled for my sleeping partner to throw out the Lifesling and turn the boat to stop. Then I let go of the boat, grab the Lifesling and pulled myself to the transom ladder. Lot was taken from this event.

I know of five people who have drown. All were at the slip. Most didn’t have a way to drop a boarding ladder while in the water. I have a loop of line at the water level to the ladder and can be pulled down. Most people in the water, who are conscious can come up a ladder. Make certain that your's is easily deployed. Most people fall overboard in clam places, docks and at anchor while getting off and on the boat.

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

"This type of harness alone cannot support a person in the hanging position without permanent injury in less than one minute."
Not that I'm totally disbelieving, but I certainly would like to see the objective data that says just one minute. After all the years that throwing a life ring, or tossing a bowline, was taught and used--without reports of grave injury and death.
I suspect the truth lies somewhere in between.

That was an verbatim quote from a standard. Not my words.


You can Google that and find some reports. However, most of the experiences were pre-internet and chest harnesses were banned from both industry (1979) and climbing (mid-60s) after too many bad experiences.


The other option is that you can take a chest harness and hang from it for a minute and see how that is. No cheating by holding on to the rope, and add an extra 20 pounds to account for sodden clothes. Don't forget that in the real world you will be bouncing and getting shock loads, but we can skip that. Likelyhood of injury no doubt depends on the individual. I've done this is testing and I doubt you'll make it to one minute. I doubt you'll make it past 25 seconds with serious pain.


Crotch straps really help, unless they are positioned poorly.

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by estarzinger

Back (a decade or so ago) when I had active contacts and friends in the Volvo and Vendee, the guys (and their riggers) made custom harnesses, which they wore when they could get away with not having on sponsor branded equipment.

Super light and super 'smooth (no lumps or bumps) - you did not know you had one on and you could sleep in them and strong (all dyneema, mostly 6mm cord but also some webbing where you needed load spreading.)

I don't know what they are doing today - the Volvo has changed beyond all recognition and they are being videoed 7x24 so they might not be able to do this now - the vendee is still pretty close to what it was and I guess the guys there still are.

I've been experimenting with chest harnesses, and for me (could be personal taste) I find that the most comfortable thing is wider webbing (about 3"--almost double the ISO requirement) covered with fleece. It does not roll or bind, and if I do come up short, it's gentle. The shoulder straps are still quite thin. There are no buckles; I made a summer and winter size.

[Time Traveler]

ThinWater -- very interesting. Can you share a drawing or photo? Are there crotch straps? If so, with buckles/snaps or just adjusters?

[requiem]

Speaking of climbing harnesses, your basic ones can get pretty bulky but the ones designed for ski mountaineering are very lightweight and probably worth a peek if you want a solid attachment point. You also don't have to step through the leg loops to put them on. (Examples: Petzl Altitude or Black Diamond Couloir.)

However, climbing harnesses don't help with suspension trauma, and I suspect that the "circumrescue collapse" phenomenon has a similar mechanism. In a rock climbing accident one of my first priorities would be to lower the casualty to a ledge or anything that would keep them from hanging in the harness. If they're conscious and moving that's one thing, but if they're unconscious or immobile suspension trauma can happen pretty quickly.

Reading about how long it takes to winch someone in, I'd definitely want something like the behind-the-knee loop shown up-thread to keep them horizontal. With any sort of loop around the chest I'd be worried about someone's ability to breath. I'd also be thinking about alternate hauling techniques to help speed up the raise.

[ZULU40]

Developing a single lift harness may be futile, even if it works
what happens when you are rescuing people from another boat,
or visitors to your own who may come with their own PFD like I would

If you have to lift someone, you have to get beyond the holding pressure the water applies to any immersed body, which requires more effort. No matter how you configure your lifting tackle, the best way out is too use a two part lift, around the back and under the arms, and the other under the legs.

Keep the two part sling in the sail locker, check your topping lift capacity isnt over exceeded

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by Time Traveler

ThinWater -- very interesting. Can you share a drawing or photo? Are there crotch straps? If so, with buckles/snaps or just adjusters?

Not crotch straps. Ouch. A bit more like a climbing harness, but with no more bulk than crotch straps and a cute trick a local climber invented (patented) that eliminates binding.



I think it may be in Practical Sailor next month.

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by requiem

...However, climbing harnesses don't help with suspension trauma, and I suspect that the "circumrescue collapse" phenomenon has a similar mechanism. In a rock climbing accident one of my first priorities would be to lower the casualty to a ledge or anything that would keep them from hanging in the harness. If they're conscious and moving that's one thing, but if they're unconscious or immobile suspension trauma can happen pretty quickly.

Reading about how long it takes to winch someone in, I'd definitely want something like the behind-the-knee loop shown up-thread to keep them horizontal. With any sort of loop around the chest I'd be worried about someone's ability to breath. I'd also be thinking about alternate hauling techniques to help speed up the raise.

Yup, circulation is a problem if the person is not moving. However, without sounding cold hearted, I have not heard of may sailors recovered unconscious that lived. This is a really small subset, and I think getting the person on-board is the real problem.


I don't understand the "takes time to winch" problem. The last time I did an MOB drill I had my 12-year old daughter winch me up. I doubt it took a minute. Clip the Lifesling line to a spinakar sheet, clip that over a snatch block and grind. How long does it take to grind in 4-5 feet of sheet? I think this is just a matter of practice and designing the gear properly. Practice and design are important.