Liferaft: Yes or No

[wolfenzee]

Originally Posted by Don Lucas

The survey says:
2/3 plan to have rafts
1/3 plan not to have rafts

My not planning to have one doesn't make me the outcast I would have expected.

I wonder if the results would have been different 20 years ago before cruisers didn't have as good weather forecasting and related info etc.

I never said I plan not to have a life raft or that I am against the idea for my boat. Just if given the option yes or no (at the present time) I would choose no. Also I consider it an option fairly low on my equipment priority list. This thread is basically (or it was supposed to be) yes or no for only one part of an entire survival package.

[wolfenzee]

Originally Posted by Adelie

For those that are really worried, you can now have the best of both worlds: Ovatek 4 &7.

Ovatek Brochure

There is NO excuse for not carrying the very best, anything else is just playing Russian roulette with your life and the lives of your crew and loved ones.

That image isn't a lifeRAFT but more of a life boat.
I agree there is no accuse for not carrying the very best, this should be carried over to every component and system of the boat. This does not mean the highest tech/most expensive gadget and gizmo, but things that are more likely to work, stay working and be able to be repaired if they break.. But if you can not afford the very best that should not prevent you from cruising.

[Adelie]

Originally Posted by wolfenzee

That image isn't a lifeRAFT but more of a life boat.
I agree there is no accuse for not carrying the very best, this should be carried over to every component and system of the boat. This does not mean the highest tech/most expensive gadget and gizmo, but things that are more likely to work, stay working and be able to be repaired if they break.. But if you can not afford the very best that should not prevent you from cruising.

Apparently my sarcasm with some previous posters' attitudes did not translate well to print.

[barnakiel]

That's the issue with democracy ;-) : based on the results of the query, some CF government would now make laws that order EVERY member (as well as all non-members;-)) to carry 2/3 of a liferaft. Smart entrepreneurs that feed on inadequate democracies would immediately provide us with quality liferafts adequately priced and some completely inadequate liferafts priced 'competitively'. That's what is called choice, today.

So I am against democracy, against governments, for choice.

Choose wisely.

b.

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by Adelie

Apparently my sarcasm with some previous posters' attitudes did not translate well to print.

Apparently. ;-)

But a discourse stripped from rhetoric is insipid.

b.

[Adelie]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

Apparently. ;-)

But a discourse stripped from rhetoric is insipid.

b.

Huh?!?
Are you saying I'm insipid or are you defending me and saying others are insipid?

I'd have to say that in this thread I have been a lot more fiery, colorful and flavorful (opposite of insipid) than I have been since the whole Abby Sunderland trainwreck, so you must be defending me. Thanks B.

A

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by wolfenzee

This thread is basically (or it was supposed to be) yes or no for only one part of an entire survival package.

That's why I put a poll on it so could get the answer to the orginal question as the thread would grow into something else.

[wolfenzee]

When I say a life raft is down on my list of priorities, it is still above some things that most people consider essential like: hot and cold pressurized water, shower enclosure, built in water heater, automatic water maker, fully automatic automated integral autopilot, commercially produced weather vane steering, electric windlass, hydraulic steering...and any other gadget or gizmo that can attempt to emulate the comforts of land.
my cold water is a nice old bronze hand pump, hot is heated on the stove (though I am looking at a portable on demand propane water heater, which though was designed as a portable shower, can be plumbed into my galley w/foot pump), the portable shower will work on deck in parts of the world less inhibited than the US (enclosure could be sails), I will be adding extra water capacity and have a manual water maker in my ditch bag in case the 100gal of water and rain catchment just doesn't do it, my autopilot is the bare bone most basic type, I will be building wind vane steering myself, I have a nice hefty bronze windlass and finally tiller steering (though I will be adding chain drive/worm gear wheel steering).
Things I have that I consider higher priority than a life raft are: new/heftier life line stanchions, jacklines, total rebuild of cabin interior to be more pleasent as well as more efficient at sea, new midship hatch (old one is being moved forward to replace an undersized deck hatch, companionway doors (replacing hatch boards), redesign of entire cockpit including addition of 2-speed whiches, mid cockpit compass mount, wheel steering, helmsman seat across back of cockpit, relocating batteries under cockpit locker and better location for propane (also adding extra bottle).......
so basically I consider a liferaft important, but some stuff more so.
A friend of mine has traveled the pacific in a boat very similar to mine, no winches, jerry jug water, one burner camp stove, bucket head, dysfunctional auxiliary, tiller lash self-steering....and he has done quite well. I would like to point out that because he has no room for a tender on board as a compromise he carries a liferaft.

[wolfenzee]

One of my pet peves is how people dump tremendous amount of money into electronic gadgets and gizmos and not only rely on them but somehow figure they will make up for their short coming s in seamanship. I tell people if there is any system or component the failure of which puts you or your boat at risk it needs to be closely examined (remember anything electric only takes a failure anywhere in the electrical system.
I am a very strong believer in the KISS principle...isn't one of the things cruising is all about is getting away from the complexities of modern day life...not trying to emulate them in an enviroment that is hostile to such complexities.

[David_Old_Jersey]

Originally Posted by wolfenzee

isn't one of the things cruising is all about is getting away from the complexities of modern day life...not trying to emulate them in an enviroment that is hostile to such complexities.

That's one of the things that has struck me over the years (particularly from this website) - but not being "out there" I don't know what the reality is away from internetland , so never got into the subject....but since you mention it

Initially I thought that by loading up with all the toys that money can buy (and beyond ability to self install, let alone fix) folks were simply missing the point of being on a boat, let alone the point of going out cruising - but over time I simply realised that other people are seeking (and getting!) different things than what I am (would be seeking) from Boats / Cruising........so my attitude nowadays is: Vive La Difference!

...........or it could be that folk have higher risk tolerances than me . or are simply pig ignorant of the potential dangers

[wolfenzee]

If one person feels they need a 6 figure boat with all the gadgets and gizmos nessesary to emulate a 6 figure land lifestyle and someone else feels they happy with glorified camping GREAT, one thing I have noticed is how many people do not realize that unlike land life that funnels people into the same life style....cruising allows you the freedom to choose what you like....and you are not forced to live a lifestyle you really can't afford.
I agree with you 100%....I still feel that even if you choose the gadgets and gizmos, you should be prepared for them to fail at the most inconvenient moment and having a back up could save your life.

[zeehag]

ANYONE wants me to "have the best" best be buying it for me......

[wolfenzee]

I have been able to equip my boat with alot of stuff I could never have done if buying new: making myself, used, and scavenging giveaways from people that were under the impression and/or could afford the latest greatest newest (so it must be the best, right). I ended up with old, used also "tired and true" stuff.

[zeehag]

Originally Posted by wolfenzee

I have been able to equip my boat with alot of stuff I could never have done if buying new: making myself, used, and scavenging giveaways from people that were under the impression and/or could afford the latest greatest newest (so it must be the best, right). I ended up with old, used also "tired and true" stuff.

my favorite is the deteriorated electrical stuffies that just need a new repair on a connector..LOL..... LOVE it...but noone throws perfctly good first rate life rafts in the dumpster.

[wolfenzee]

As this thread has drifted considerably I will pull it back long enough to point out a few things. NO one has come out saying they are actually against life rafts, the only case in which a life raft has said to actually be a bad idea is when people consider a life raft as a complete survival system and do not feel the need to supplement it with a ditch bag....this false sense of security could actually prove fatal.
The tangents this thread have taken involve the need of a ditch bag, equipping and maintaining the boat, as well as other saftey measures that would actually prevent the need for the use of a life raft. Then evolved into the overall equipping and maintaining of the boat and finally into socialogical/economic reasoning for why boats are equipped the way they are.
How self-sufficency, creativity, invetiveness has been replaced with dependancy on other people to do things for you: if it breaks (or you are led to beilive it is obsolete), get it fixed or replace it with what marketing says is the essential replacement.....our culture has actively been ingraining in people to not be able to do stuff for themselves (if you can afford not to or get a bank loan/credit card, why bother)