Liferaft: Yes or No

[hellosailor]

Well here's a thought on "didn't inflate". Life rafts, like fire extinguishers, rely on a pressure bottle keeping the gas inside. Whether that is with a valve or with a soldered metal foil that is pierced, doesn't matter. Both have been known to leak, which is why gas cartridges are often WEIGHED to confirm that they have not leaked.

Yes, if you have a freshly repacked life raft, how about weighing it, carefully, on a scale that is accurate to a few ounces? 1/10th kilogram say?

If the raft gets 4-6 ounces lighter over the course of time, you can bet that the gas cartridge has leaked, and the raft may not inflate. Having an alternate means of inflation, or a spare gas cannister packed in it, may be worth considering as cheap insurance.

Fire extinguishers usually have pressure gauges, life rafts...Never? Does that not make sense to anyone?

[wolfenzee]

It is possible to set your boat up so it is failure proof and you will not need a life raft or eprib...to do any extensive traveling it will require special equipment and licensing....a semi-truck with boat trailer and CDL license.
By it's nature nothing on a boat is failure proof, as being on a boat makes things failure prone effort has to be put into all systems and components on a boat to prevent and/or deal with the resulting disasters.
Prevention in every way possible paramount

[Paul Elliott]

Has anyone here said "I've got a crappy leaking boat, no damage-control gear, no training and less experience, but that's OK because I bought this liferaft and EPIRB."? I sure haven't seen it.

Evans and some others do have a good point about mindset and the effect of having the "bail-out" option easily available.

And as is usually the case with this type of discussion, it ends up where we all vigorously defend our own choices.

Carry on!

[Jimbo485]

I am confused by all this talk of "safety gear" without more specific categories.


1. Some of you refer to anything used as a means of screaming for help as safety gear. EPIRBS, radios, flares, etc.

2. Others mention liferafts in which you can sit around while you wait for rescue.

3. And then others talk about crash pumps, multiple compartments, plywood sheets for windows, emergency rudders, etc.

4. And on other threads we can read about anchors, rigging size, rudder quadrants, cyclone seasons, navigation, etc.

I see some major differences here. The first two sets of examples are passive and dependent on others to save your sorry arse - just scream for help and then wait. A baby does the same when hungry. The third set is reactive and independent. The fourth set is preventative and proactive.

What is your priority - set 1, 2, 3 or 4???

[estarzinger]

Originally Posted by Paul Elliott

Has anyone here said "I've got a crappy leaking boat, no damage-control gear, no training and less experience, but that's OK because I bought this liferaft and EPIRB."?

Paul, those type of guys are all out cruising in remote places with no internet access, not on the forum!

[wolfenzee]

You should be familiar with and able to fixand/or jury rig every component and system on your boat with out the aid and/or availability of land based parts stores yourself...basically prepare for everything to fail at sometime.

[David_Old_Jersey]

Originally Posted by Paul Elliott

Has anyone here said "I've got a crappy leaking boat, no damage-control gear, no training and less experience, but that's OK because I bought this liferaft and EPIRB."? I sure haven't seen it.

To that I think you can add the category: "I bought the one on page 7 of the brochure - because the wife liked the curtains ........anyone know how to go RTW? "

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Jimbo485

I am confused by all this talk of "safety gear" without more specific categories.


1. Some of you refer to anything used as a means of screaming for help as safety gear. EPIRBS, radios, flares, etc.

2. Others mention liferafts in which you can sit around while you wait for rescue.

3. And then others talk about crash pumps, multiple compartments, plywood sheets for windows, emergency rudders, etc.

4. And on other threads we can read about anchors, rigging size, rudder quadrants, cyclone seasons, navigation, etc.

I see some major differences here. The first two sets of examples are passive and dependent on others to save your sorry arse - just scream for help and then wait. A baby does the same when hungry. The third set is reactive and independent. The fourth set is preventative and proactive.

What is your priority - set 1, 2, 3 or 4???

Well put....
A dollop of 3 with a splash of 4

[Snore]

Originally Posted by Jimbo485

I am confused by all this talk of "safety gear" without more specific categories.

1. Some of you refer to anything used as a means of screaming for help as safety gear. EPIRBS, radios, flares, etc.

2. Others mention liferafts in which you can sit around while you wait for rescue.

3. And then others talk about crash pumps, multiple compartments, plywood sheets for windows, emergency rudders, etc.

4. And on other threads we can read about anchors, rigging size, rudder quadrants, cyclone seasons, navigation, etc.

I see some major differences here. The first two sets of examples are passive and dependent on others to save your sorry arse - just scream for help and then wait. A baby does the same when hungry. The third set is reactive and independent. The fourth set is preventative and proactive.

What is your priority - set 1, 2, 3 or 4???

One should outfit the vessel and drill the crew to reasonably perform 4 and 3. But accept that if all goes to hell you may have to step UP into the raft you have ready in #2 if it all goes to hell and finally pray that all the gear you bought and tested for #1 works when you need it.

Stated differently, if you have not done what it takes to self-rescue, why should someone risk their neck to save you?

Bill

[boatman61]

[QUOTE=Snore;804147
Stated differently, if you have not done what it takes to self-rescue, why should someone risk their neck to save you?

Bill[/QUOTE]

No one is argueing about doing what it takes to save youself/self rescue....
The dispute is the method...
Some who say the liferaft is the only/supreme answer...
and those in favour of dinghy's etc...
There is one sure way... don't go to sea...

[conachair]

John Vigors' take on the subject...

John Vigor's Blog: Your own best lifeboat

[estarzinger]

Originally Posted by conachair

John Vigors' take on the subject...

John Vigor's Blog: Your own best lifeboat

"No ma'am, I don't. I have grave doubts about the usefulness of life rafts on small sailboats. I once edited a book about a large storm off New Zealand that caused havoc among a fleet of yachts heading north, and the only deaths involved a family that took to their life raft. They were never seen again. All the yachts survived, even though some were abandoned when their crews were taken aboard rescue boats."

While I have strong sympathy with his argument and conclusion, I might note that his last sentence is in error. HE is correct that almost all the boats that were abandoned were later found floating just fine. But there was one boat that disappeared.

This crew (apparently) took to their life raft (remnants of the raft were later found) and subsequently disappeared, were on a boat called "quartermaster" and that one boat was never found and presumed sunk. So, this is a case where the boat did sink but the raft also did not save the crew.

The odds of surviving in a life raft or dinghy thru the peak of that Storm were pretty low. It was very severe with huge breaking waves.

The boat had the previous winter been dropped out of a travel lift in a NZ boat yard. Surveyors had said it was not structurally damaged, but there was always some suspicion after the boat was lost that the keel/hull join or keel bolts had been damaged in this dropping and that the keel had then come off in the storm sinking the boat.

[Mexdon]

Originally Posted by estarzinger

"No ma'am, I don't. I have grave doubts about the usefulness of life rafts on small sailboats. I once edited a book about a large storm off New Zealand that caused havoc among a fleet of yachts heading north, and the only deaths involved a family that took to their life raft. They were never seen again. All the yachts survived, even though some were abandoned when their crews were taken aboard rescue boats."

While I have strong sympathy with his argument and conclusion, I might note that his last sentence is in error. HE is correct that almost all the boats that were abandoned were later found floating just fine. But there was one boat that disappeared.

This crew (apparently) took to their life raft (remnants of the raft were later found) and subsequently disappeared, were on a boat called "quartermaster" and that one boat was never found and presumed sunk. So, this is a case where the boat did sink but the raft also did not save the crew.

The odds of surviving in a life raft or dinghy thru the peak of that Storm were pretty low. It was very severe with huge breaking waves.

The boat had the previous winter been dropped out of a travel lift in a NZ boat yard. Surveyors had said it was not structurally damaged, but there was always some suspicion after the boat was lost that the keel/hull join or keel bolts had been damaged in this dropping and that the keel had then come off in the storm sinking the boat.

For me I would never abandon my yacht if it were still floating but if it were a few hundred fathoms below the surface it would be nice to think that I may survive in my life raft or dinghy. It has worked for some, but perfect storm conditions are rare and can be the reason for exceptions.

[Minggat]

Originally Posted by boatman61

No one is argueing about doing what it takes to save youself/self rescue....The dispute is the method...
Some who say the liferaft is the only/supreme answer...

Well put and worth repeating. Some have used words such as mild as "irresponsible", others have chosen words like "stupid and pig headed", assuming that the choice not to go with a life raft was not researched at all.

Put the words "Life" & "Raft" together and you have a winner. It's a natural response. In real truth, which some will deny, a better set of words to apply might be, "Take Your Chances With This Raft", or "Roll The Dice Raft".

But then, my mother wears combat boots. What do I know?

[sailorboy1]

square rubber inflatable inner tube with a zippered tent on top of it which one can get try to get into in rough seas and hope someone finds you

way too many words, lets just call it a life raft as that seems better marketing!