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View Poll Results: do you plan to have a liferaft on your boat when heading out to cruise?
yes 180 64.98%
no 97 35.02%
Voters: 277. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 24-06-2012, 16:31   #391
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Re: Liferaft: Yes or No

Adelie, thanks for the kind response and info. And so many of your other wise comments on may subjects. You are worth reading. I wondered if the need to get something light and air-transportable to downed pilots in WWII might have been relevant as well.

Andrew: Nice to hear from a 'Max Headroom' fan. I watched it live. My favorite line is when the entire world, or perhaps universe (?) is about to end in some ultimate catastrophe and our hero says, "Well, it looks like about time to put the wheels back on the bus." (VW, of course)

And, TV's that could not be turned off first appear in Orwell's, 1984, I think.
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Old 24-06-2012, 21:47   #392
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Re: Liferaft: Yes or No

Quote:
Originally Posted by kefroeschner View Post
Adelie, thanks for the kind response and info. And so many of your other wise comments on may subjects. You are worth reading. I wondered if the need to get something light and air-transportable to downed pilots in WWII might have been relevant as well.
I meant to imply that in my earlier post with the line about WW-II and the jet age that followed but should have made that more overt.

I don't know about being wise, I strive for balanced.

My feeling is that a lot of things come about in this world for very good reasons in particular circumstances but then others try to expand the use of those things into areas where they aren't suited or aren't as well suited either because they don't know better or they have a financial incentive that helps them rationalize that what they are selling is the best in all situations. I'm not just talking about inflatable liferafts, but other sailing topics like ultralights as cruising boats and integrating all your electronics and electronic charting and the latest and greatest in anchors being completely superior to all other previous designs in all situations.
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Old 05-04-2017, 20:11   #393
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Re: Liferaft: Yes or No

Bump!

Very interesting stuff! I just finished reading Lin (lynne?) and Larry Pardey's "Storm Tactics" with great interest, the real-life examples of the storms they endured made me question the practicality of a liferaft.

I'd previously thought of getting a Portland Pudgy as it seemed like a good idea to combine a dinghy with a liferaft since I'm a fan of small boats. Roughly 160lbs though? Singlehanded? Nope! Not going to work. If I somehow started going down while hove-to there's no way I'm going to be able to launch the thing, set up the canopy and sail and get inside...nevermind what to do next, I guess the only option would be to run which is unlikely to work anyway if I had to heave-to in a bigger keelboat to begin with. Think I'll just sleep with my drysuit on when things get hairy and maybe try to make sure my dinghy is partially inflated and keep some fat fire extinguishers handy cause, damn! a dinghy and a liferaft on a tiny boat? Fuhgeddaboudit!

No disrespect to anyone who operates differently, of course.

Might have to change up the MO if I somehow sucker, er, convince others to get aboard with me
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Old 05-04-2017, 21:15   #394
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Re: Liferaft: Yes or No

The best thing that ever came out of having a life raft aboard for all our travels was the recent event inMexico. It is less than 1/2 the price of Stateside and the guys in Ensenada are all bomberos( firemen).
They get all their families together on the beach just north of E. and have a party and shoot off all the expired flares. Great fun for the kids and heaps of cervesas supplied by yours truly. They have re packed both my life rafts and are certified accepted by US Coast Guard. Phil
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Old 05-04-2017, 21:38   #395
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Re: Liferaft: Yes or No

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Bump!

Very interesting stuff! I just finished reading Lin (lynne?) and Larry Pardey's "Storm Tactics" with great interest, the real-life examples of the storms they endured made me question the practicality of a liferaft.
In my coastal sailing I always had more fear of a collision with a ufo or a ship necessitating the use of a life raft rather than a storm. Yodo.
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Old 05-04-2017, 22:19   #396
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Re: Liferaft: Yes or No

Holy thread necromancy! Good Liferaft + automatic deployment = cheap insurance against sudden catastrophe (UFO collision, zombies take over the boat, etc...).
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Old 05-04-2017, 22:42   #397
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Re: Liferaft: Yes or No

I do not and will not have a life raft. Eventually some people reach the realization that it's their own competence and skill that keeps them out of trouble. The rest buy "safety equipment", attend "safety at sea seminars", and join "group crossing" to get that false sense of security necessary for them to cast off the lines.
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Old 06-04-2017, 18:10   #398
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Re: Liferaft: Yes or No

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I do not and will not have a life raft. Eventually some people reach the realization that it's their own competence and skill that keeps them out of trouble....
Best to knock on wood; both UFOs and zombies LOVE competent and skillful folks!
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Old 06-04-2017, 18:24   #399
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Re: Liferaft: Yes or No

Well as this one my oooold threads I'll just tell you that based on my 6 months cruising from Boston to George Town Bahama, mother st boats don't have a life raft!
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Old 06-04-2017, 18:35   #400
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Re: Liferaft: Yes or No

Other than money, why not have a life raft? What's the downside? Ive just spend $1,500 servicing and putting a epirb in it, I hope I never need but if I do its there.

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Old 06-04-2017, 18:37   #401
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Re: Liferaft: Yes or No

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Other than money, why not have a life raft? What's the downside? Ive just spend $1,500 servicing and putting a epirb in it, I hope I never need but if I do its there.

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Money, space, weight, servicing.
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Old 06-04-2017, 19:25   #402
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Re: Liferaft: Yes or No

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Originally Posted by daletournier View Post
Other than money, why not have a life raft? What's the downside? Ive just spend $1,500 servicing and putting a epirb in it, I hope I never need but if I do its there.

Sent from my vivo Y35 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app
I don't think it is useful to say Other than money. It is really how money is allocated to saftey gear and training. There is a ton of saftey gear marketed to cruisers that would prohibitively expensive to take them all. Is a life- raft worth the $2,500 to purchase and $500 a year to maintain?
For my type of cruising the answer is yes. Most all of the cruising boats we see that crossed the S. Pacific have one.
I can certainly see people taking the opposite choice. Evans Starzinger has made some arguments against a life raft
Seamanship
Here's the beginning of the argument, you get the whole thing at the link.
Quote:
. 30. What sort of liferaft do you carry?

This is an example of a fundamental disagreement we have with the safety experts' approach to safety. We do not like to rely on 'single-purpose, untestable, magic boxes' and have not carried a liferaft on either of our voyages/boats. People say, "Well, I may need a raft and there is no harm in putting one on board." I think both elements of that statement reflect poor logic. Having the raft aboard does bring significant downsides and the likelihood the raft will be useful is much smaller than many other very low risks that we all just let go by in our lives without undue concern or special precaution.
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Old 06-04-2017, 22:38   #403
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Re: Liferaft: Yes or No

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...Evans Starzinger has made some arguments against a life raft
Seamanship...
Thanks for the link, Paul.

Mr. Starzinger's arguments in regards to safety gear are subjective, specious to an extent, and rather presumptuous. Bit of a shame, really, as they detract from his otherwise well-considered advice.
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Old 06-04-2017, 22:49   #404
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Re: Liferaft: Yes or No

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Originally Posted by hafa View Post
Holy thread necromancy! Good Liferaft + automatic deployment = cheap insurance against sudden catastrophe (UFO collision, zombies take over the boat, etc...).
This isn't major thread necromancy, I saw a 10yr old thread come back about a month or 2 ago.

Also, I would not consider a liferaft the same price as my boat cheap.
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Old 06-04-2017, 23:09   #405
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Re: Liferaft: Yes or No

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This isn't major thread necromancy, I saw a 10yr old thread come back about a month or 2 ago..
Not major, but HOLY! Also, a general oddity with a colonel of truth and a major boost for the OP.

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Also, I would not consider a liferaft the same price as my boat cheap.
Clearly, one size does not fit all; I didn't put a liferaft on the Santana 20 I used to sail around the lagoon either (a rather absurd picture, that). On our Hunter 40.5, however, it's just fine, and inexpensive (on a relative scale). Different equipment for different undertakings.
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