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View Poll Results: do you plan to have a liferaft on your boat when heading out to cruise?
yes 180 64.98%
no 97 35.02%
Voters: 277. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 25-03-2012, 13:06   #346
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Re: Liferaft: Yes or No

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Originally Posted by Don Lucas View Post
I don't believe I have ever called my dinghy a liferaft. If you got that I mispoke/typed.
My bad.Sorry
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Old 26-03-2012, 10:29   #347
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Re: Liferaft: Yes or No

For ANYONE considering a dinghy as a substitute for a life raft: With the exception of fire, if conditions are bad enough to abandon ship, then a dinghy is a death trap. Survivors have been throw out of covered life rafts. Just think of how violent that must have been, and then picture your family trying to get back to a dinghy.

I believe that money, maintenance, and space are the real reasons for not carrying a raft offshore. While I love the Portland Pudgy idea, it costs twice what a raft would.

I would gladly do my own repacking if it would meet the requirements of several organizations and events I participate in. But it does not.

Since everyone with a boat is stuck with where they're at*, this whole thread can serve only those still making a decision about their next boat. I urge them to include a life raft in their cost calculations if they are headed offshore, beyond the reach of rapid rescue. That is probably 20 miles offshore without an epirb or plb, and perhaps 200 miles or less depending on weather otherwise.

*otherwise you would have to admit you were had or made a bad decision.
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Old 26-03-2012, 11:29   #348
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Re: Liferaft: Yes or No

Sandy, I guess my retort would be which would you rather have a lifeboat or a liferaft? Wile the Portland Pudgy is more expensive than an inexpensive coastal liferaft it is not more expensive than an unsinkable dink plus liferaft.

I personally feel more comfortable with something that I use regularly that some thing packaged up in a box that is supposed to inflate when it hits the water but may or may not. That may or not have all the survival stuff I put in there two or three years ago etc, etc.

Just a different perspective....to each his own.....go with what you are comfortable with.

I guess my nature is to always take a different different direction than what the herd is doing, for good or for bad.
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Old 26-03-2012, 11:39   #349
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Re: Liferaft: Yes or No

It is true that a dinghy does not a liferaft make. However certain dinghys can be made into liferafts with additional equipment and addons. The Portland Pudgy is an unsinkable watercraft that can be equipped to serve as a liferaft as well. Having watched videos of liferafts flipping and collapsing you have to wonder if there isn't something better out there than an inflatable tomb.
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Old 26-03-2012, 13:02   #350
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Re: Liferaft: Yes or No

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Originally Posted by northwestsailor View Post
Sandy, I guess my retort would be which would you rather have a lifeboat or a liferaft? Wile the Portland Pudgy is more expensive than an inexpensive coastal liferaft it is not more expensive than an unsinkable dink plus liferaft.

I personally feel more comfortable with something that I use regularly that some thing packaged up in a box that is supposed to inflate when it hits the water but may or may not. That may or not have all the survival stuff I put in there two or three years ago etc, etc.

Just a different perspective....to each his own.....go with what you are comfortable with.

I guess my nature is to always take a different different direction than what the herd is doing, for good or for bad.
Most dingys aren't suitable to even serve as a "mild weather" liferaft but many can be altered to serve just fine in up to moderate conditions.

His is just one opinion of what is necessary for offshore survival.

If fishermen can survive for days in the North pacific on just gumby suits...add a reasonable, suitable dingy and you double your chances for sure.

A dingy with no liferaft increases the average survival at sea a thousand fold...till you get into bad weather.
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Old 27-03-2012, 00:29   #351
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Re: Liferaft: Yes or No

The Portland Pudgy looks like an innovative dinghy. It is NOT a liferaft or anything like it. The last time a manufacturer (Tinker) marketed a dinghy as a liferaft, with canopy, inflation gas, sea anchor et al it was comprehensively debunked by a test of liferafts (by Cruising World and others IIRC). Without "Icelandic" water ballast pockets the dinghy rolled repeatedly and the occupants were quickly injured by the plywood floor and thwart - the test was aborted very early for the Tinker (but not for real liferafts). If a yacht sank in a high pressure area with calm seas then any dinghy would be helpful; the normal ocean conditions I have seen would quickly result in bruising at a minimum. Survivors inside a rubber liferaft can have a hell of a ride, but they are not likely to get broken bones - a distinct possibility for any dinghy with rigid parts.

I am not denying that a dinghy might have great value in some situations. I am only saying that buying a dinghy of any sort is not ticking the box for a liferaft.
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Old 27-03-2012, 01:07   #352
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Re: Liferaft: Yes or No

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Originally Posted by sandy daugherty View Post
.....So, after 18 pages of flammable rhetoric, did anyone learn something that changed their mind, or has this all been a senseless abuse of innocent electrons?
Wow Sandy…so cynical of our capacity to reason but I hear you…

For those of us of have worked both commercial and yachting, the key question is not whether to have a life raft as a last resort…. but which is the best one to have?

Like anything else, the devil is in the details





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Old 27-03-2012, 05:52   #353
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Re: Liferaft: Yes or No

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When I sailed my Dana from Houston back to England, I also was not going to take liferaft or epirb. My reasoning being if I am out there for my own pleasure why should I expect others to put their lives in danger to rescue me. My wife on the other hand thought differently so I took both.
This exactly our choice, however, we are sailing with guests very often and on a professional basis.
We have no choice but to take two...
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Old 27-03-2012, 15:04   #354
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Re: Liferaft: Yes or No

Well on the dinghy as a life raft debate, Yes a dinghy is less survivable than a life raft in a storm.

But ships go down for several reasons, 1. fire 2. leak 3. impact with a hard floating object 4. collision 5. shoal 6. storm

If a ship goes down in so severe a storm that it sinks a "blue water" cruiser, the odds of survival in ANY floating object, (including a liferaft), smaller than your "blue water" cruiser is unlikely.

If my boat sinks from a leak, it is unlikely that the rib dinghy will also leak and sink. It may be less comfortable than a liferaft, but equally survivable during the probable rescue time after radio or satelite beacon summons help, (odds of storm happening before recuers arrive,....variable)

Ditto for the other causes of sinking.
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Old 27-03-2012, 15:58   #355
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Re: Liferaft: Yes or No

After reading Stephen Callahan's book 'Adrift', I am going the dinghy route with little reservation about it.

There are plenty of situations which would favor either one, raft or dinghy. Deflatability is a dealbreaker for me, however.
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Old 27-03-2012, 16:31   #356
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A dinghy is no substitute for a proper liferaft. If you've ever been in a proper liferaft in bad conditions you'd understand that. Firstly you need cover/shelter. Secondly you need stability and thirdly you need visibility. A dinghy gives you none of these.

Like a lot of insurance, when you need a liferaft nothing else will do.


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Old 27-03-2012, 17:21   #357
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Re: Liferaft: Yes or No

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pelagic View Post
For those of us of have worked both commercial and yachting, the key question is not whether to have a life raft as a last resort…. but which is the best one to have?

Like anything else, the devil is in the details
I'm taking both liferaft and inflatable!
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Old 27-03-2012, 17:25   #358
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Re: Liferaft: Yes or No

When i actually find and fix a boat up I plan on seeing to getting a dinghy that has positive flotation and adding inflatable sections. Would be great to have a sealed electronic propulsion system hooked up to solar panels. The reality is probably they will find me in an immersion suit with an EPIRB going while I float around wishing I could afford a dinghy instead of a homemade canoe.


btw, how do I go about adding a picture too that bar over on the left where it has my information.
Not used to forums... Not used to talking with people at all really.
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Old 27-03-2012, 18:06   #359
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Re: Liferaft: Yes or No

Pelagic, since you posted 3 videos of a givens life raft I wondered if you know what is going on with them. We bought one after much research and they are no longer manufacturing. We spent quite a bit of money on a six man at a boat show and never received it.
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Old 28-03-2012, 04:51   #360
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Re: Liferaft: Yes or No

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Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
A dinghy is no substitute for a proper liferaft. If you've ever been in a proper liferaft in bad conditions you'd understand that. Firstly you need cover/shelter. Secondly you need stability and thirdly you need visibility. A dinghy gives you none of these.

Like a lot of insurance, when you need a liferaft nothing else will do.


Dave
You are correct for ocean crossing....And correct a dingy is not as capable as a true, GOOD liferaft
....but....For near coastal cruising a dingy may be suitable for 99 percent of the time you need one as many coastal cruisers are never caught in storm conditions. They spend the money on being able to get good forecasts with the money they save on the liferaft.
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