Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

View Poll Results: do you plan to have a liferaft on your boat when heading out to cruise?
yes 180 64.98%
no 97 35.02%
Voters: 277. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 25-10-2011, 10:30   #241
֍֎֍֎֍֎֍֎֍֎

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 13,055
Re: Liferaft: Yes or No ?

Well here's a thought on "didn't inflate". Life rafts, like fire extinguishers, rely on a pressure bottle keeping the gas inside. Whether that is with a valve or with a soldered metal foil that is pierced, doesn't matter. Both have been known to leak, which is why gas cartridges are often WEIGHED to confirm that they have not leaked.

Yes, if you have a freshly repacked life raft, how about weighing it, carefully, on a scale that is accurate to a few ounces? 1/10th kilogram say?

If the raft gets 4-6 ounces lighter over the course of time, you can bet that the gas cartridge has leaked, and the raft may not inflate. Having an alternate means of inflation, or a spare gas cannister packed in it, may be worth considering as cheap insurance.

Fire extinguishers usually have pressure gauges, life rafts...Never? Does that not make sense to anyone?
__________________

__________________
hellosailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-10-2011, 10:40   #242
Eternal Member
 
wolfenzee's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Port Ludlow, WA (NW corner of Puget Sound)
Boat: 30' William Atkin cutter
Posts: 1,496
Send a message via ICQ to wolfenzee
Re: Liferaft: Yes or No ?

It is possible to set your boat up so it is failure proof and you will not need a life raft or eprib...to do any extensive traveling it will require special equipment and licensing....a semi-truck with boat trailer and CDL license.
By it's nature nothing on a boat is failure proof, as being on a boat makes things failure prone effort has to be put into all systems and components on a boat to prevent and/or deal with the resulting disasters.
Prevention in every way possible paramount
__________________

__________________
"It is better to die living than live dieing" (Tolstoy para-phrased by Jimmy Buffet)
"Those who think they know everything piss off those of us who do"
wolfenzee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-10-2011, 10:47   #243
Moderator
 
Paul Elliott's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,880
Images: 4
Re: Liferaft: Yes or No ?

Has anyone here said "I've got a crappy leaking boat, no damage-control gear, no training and less experience, but that's OK because I bought this liferaft and EPIRB."? I sure haven't seen it.

Evans and some others do have a good point about mindset and the effect of having the "bail-out" option easily available.

And as is usually the case with this type of discussion, it ends up where we all vigorously defend our own choices.

Carry on!
__________________
Paul Elliott, S/V VALIS - Pacific Seacraft 44 #16 - Friday Harbor, WA
www.sailvalis.com
Paul Elliott is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 25-10-2011, 10:49   #244
Registered User
 
Jimbo485's Avatar

Join Date: May 2010
Location: some ocean down under
Boat: Kelsall Suncat 40
Posts: 1,247
Re: Liferaft: Yes or No ?

I am confused by all this talk of "safety gear" without more specific categories.


1. Some of you refer to anything used as a means of screaming for help as safety gear. EPIRBS, radios, flares, etc.

2. Others mention liferafts in which you can sit around while you wait for rescue.

3. And then others talk about crash pumps, multiple compartments, plywood sheets for windows, emergency rudders, etc.

4. And on other threads we can read about anchors, rigging size, rudder quadrants, cyclone seasons, navigation, etc.

I see some major differences here. The first two sets of examples are passive and dependent on others to save your sorry arse - just scream for help and then wait. A baby does the same when hungry. The third set is reactive and independent. The fourth set is preventative and proactive.

What is your priority - set 1, 2, 3 or 4???
__________________
Jimbo485 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-10-2011, 10:49   #245
CF Adviser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2009
Boat: Custom Van De Stadt 47 Samoa
Posts: 3,750
Re: Liferaft: Yes or No ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Elliott View Post
Has anyone here said "I've got a crappy leaking boat, no damage-control gear, no training and less experience, but that's OK because I bought this liferaft and EPIRB."?
Paul, those type of guys are all out cruising in remote places with no internet access, not on the forum!
__________________
estarzinger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-10-2011, 11:01   #246
Eternal Member
 
wolfenzee's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Port Ludlow, WA (NW corner of Puget Sound)
Boat: 30' William Atkin cutter
Posts: 1,496
Send a message via ICQ to wolfenzee
Re: Liferaft: Yes or No ?

You should be familiar with and able to fixand/or jury rig every component and system on your boat with out the aid and/or availability of land based parts stores yourself...basically prepare for everything to fail at sometime.
__________________
"It is better to die living than live dieing" (Tolstoy para-phrased by Jimmy Buffet)
"Those who think they know everything piss off those of us who do"
wolfenzee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-10-2011, 02:39   #247
Armchair Bucketeer
 
David_Old_Jersey's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 10,013
Images: 4
Re: Liferaft: Yes or No ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Elliott View Post
Has anyone here said "I've got a crappy leaking boat, no damage-control gear, no training and less experience, but that's OK because I bought this liferaft and EPIRB."? I sure haven't seen it.
To that I think you can add the category: "I bought the one on page 7 of the brochure - because the wife liked the curtains ........anyone know how to go RTW? "
__________________
David_Old_Jersey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-10-2011, 03:37   #248
Freelance Delivery Skipper..
 
boatman61's Avatar

Community Sponsor
Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: UK/Portugal
Posts: 20,210
Images: 2
Send a message via Skype™ to boatman61
pirate Re: Liferaft: Yes or No ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimbo485 View Post
I am confused by all this talk of "safety gear" without more specific categories.


1. Some of you refer to anything used as a means of screaming for help as safety gear. EPIRBS, radios, flares, etc.

2. Others mention liferafts in which you can sit around while you wait for rescue.

3. And then others talk about crash pumps, multiple compartments, plywood sheets for windows, emergency rudders, etc.

4. And on other threads we can read about anchors, rigging size, rudder quadrants, cyclone seasons, navigation, etc.

I see some major differences here. The first two sets of examples are passive and dependent on others to save your sorry arse - just scream for help and then wait. A baby does the same when hungry. The third set is reactive and independent. The fourth set is preventative and proactive.

What is your priority - set 1, 2, 3 or 4???
Well put....
A dollop of 3 with a splash of 4
__________________


Born To Be Wild
boatman61 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-10-2011, 04:22   #249
Registered User
 
Snore's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: www.USCGMaster.com
Boat: Tartan 33
Posts: 1,881
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimbo485
I am confused by all this talk of "safety gear" without more specific categories.

1. Some of you refer to anything used as a means of screaming for help as safety gear. EPIRBS, radios, flares, etc.

2. Others mention liferafts in which you can sit around while you wait for rescue.

3. And then others talk about crash pumps, multiple compartments, plywood sheets for windows, emergency rudders, etc.

4. And on other threads we can read about anchors, rigging size, rudder quadrants, cyclone seasons, navigation, etc.

I see some major differences here. The first two sets of examples are passive and dependent on others to save your sorry arse - just scream for help and then wait. A baby does the same when hungry. The third set is reactive and independent. The fourth set is preventative and proactive.

What is your priority - set 1, 2, 3 or 4???

One should outfit the vessel and drill the crew to reasonably perform 4 and 3. But accept that if all goes to hell you may have to step UP into the raft you have ready in #2 if it all goes to hell and finally pray that all the gear you bought and tested for #1 works when you need it.

Stated differently, if you have not done what it takes to self-rescue, why should someone risk their neck to save you?

Bill
__________________
"Whenever...it requires a strong moral principle to prevent me from deliberately stepping into the street, and methodically knocking people's hats off- then, I account it high time to get to sea..." Ismael ---- NEW website! www.USCGMaster.com
Snore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-10-2011, 04:31   #250
Freelance Delivery Skipper..
 
boatman61's Avatar

Community Sponsor
Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: UK/Portugal
Posts: 20,210
Images: 2
Send a message via Skype™ to boatman61
pirate Re: Liferaft: Yes or No ?

[QUOTE=Snore;804147
Stated differently, if you have not done what it takes to self-rescue, why should someone risk their neck to save you?

Bill[/QUOTE]

No one is argueing about doing what it takes to save youself/self rescue....
The dispute is the method...
Some who say the liferaft is the only/supreme answer...
and those in favour of dinghy's etc...
There is one sure way... don't go to sea...
__________________


Born To Be Wild
boatman61 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-10-2011, 08:13   #251
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Probably in an anchorage or a boatyard..
Boat: Ebbtide 33' steel cutter
Posts: 3,538
Re: Liferaft: Yes or No ?

John Vigors' take on the subject...

John Vigor's Blog: Your own best lifeboat
__________________
conachair is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-10-2011, 08:25   #252
CF Adviser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2009
Boat: Custom Van De Stadt 47 Samoa
Posts: 3,750
Re: Liferaft: Yes or No ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by conachair View Post
John Vigors' take on the subject...

John Vigor's Blog: Your own best lifeboat
"No ma'am, I don't. I have grave doubts about the usefulness of life rafts on small sailboats. I once edited a book about a large storm off New Zealand that caused havoc among a fleet of yachts heading north, and the only deaths involved a family that took to their life raft. They were never seen again. All the yachts survived, even though some were abandoned when their crews were taken aboard rescue boats."

While I have strong sympathy with his argument and conclusion, I might note that his last sentence is in error. HE is correct that almost all the boats that were abandoned were later found floating just fine. But there was one boat that disappeared.

This crew (apparently) took to their life raft (remnants of the raft were later found) and subsequently disappeared, were on a boat called "quartermaster" and that one boat was never found and presumed sunk. So, this is a case where the boat did sink but the raft also did not save the crew.

The odds of surviving in a life raft or dinghy thru the peak of that Storm were pretty low. It was very severe with huge breaking waves.

The boat had the previous winter been dropped out of a travel lift in a NZ boat yard. Surveyors had said it was not structurally damaged, but there was always some suspicion after the boat was lost that the keel/hull join or keel bolts had been damaged in this dropping and that the keel had then come off in the storm sinking the boat.
__________________
estarzinger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-10-2011, 09:01   #253
Registered User
 
Mexdon's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Mexico City
Boat: CR 56 CC to be built 2014 2015
Posts: 455
Send a message via Skype™ to Mexdon
Re: Liferaft: Yes or No ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by estarzinger View Post
"No ma'am, I don't. I have grave doubts about the usefulness of life rafts on small sailboats. I once edited a book about a large storm off New Zealand that caused havoc among a fleet of yachts heading north, and the only deaths involved a family that took to their life raft. They were never seen again. All the yachts survived, even though some were abandoned when their crews were taken aboard rescue boats."

While I have strong sympathy with his argument and conclusion, I might note that his last sentence is in error. HE is correct that almost all the boats that were abandoned were later found floating just fine. But there was one boat that disappeared.

This crew (apparently) took to their life raft (remnants of the raft were later found) and subsequently disappeared, were on a boat called "quartermaster" and that one boat was never found and presumed sunk. So, this is a case where the boat did sink but the raft also did not save the crew.

The odds of surviving in a life raft or dinghy thru the peak of that Storm were pretty low. It was very severe with huge breaking waves.

The boat had the previous winter been dropped out of a travel lift in a NZ boat yard. Surveyors had said it was not structurally damaged, but there was always some suspicion after the boat was lost that the keel/hull join or keel bolts had been damaged in this dropping and that the keel had then come off in the storm sinking the boat.
For me I would never abandon my yacht if it were still floating but if it were a few hundred fathoms below the surface it would be nice to think that I may survive in my life raft or dinghy. It has worked for some, but perfect storm conditions are rare and can be the reason for exceptions.
__________________
When I was a boy my momma would send me down to the corner store with $1 and I would come back with 5 potatoes, 2 loaves of bread, 3 bottles of milk, a hunk of cheese, a box of tea and 6 eggs. Can't do that now, too many f**kn security cameras.
Mexdon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-10-2011, 09:05   #254
Senior Cruiser
 
Minggat's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Hawaii, South Pacific bound
Boat: Islander 36
Posts: 1,221
Re: Liferaft: Yes or No ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by boatman61 View Post

No one is argueing about doing what it takes to save youself/self rescue....The dispute is the method...
Some who say the liferaft is the only/supreme answer...
Well put and worth repeating. Some have used words such as mild as "irresponsible", others have chosen words like "stupid and pig headed", assuming that the choice not to go with a life raft was not researched at all.

Put the words "Life" & "Raft" together and you have a winner. It's a natural response. In real truth, which some will deny, a better set of words to apply might be, "Take Your Chances With This Raft", or "Roll The Dice Raft".

But then, my mother wears combat boots. What do I know?
__________________
Minggat
Minggat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-10-2011, 09:30   #255
Don't ask if you can't handle it
 
sailorboy1's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: On the boat somewhere
Boat: Hunter 410
Posts: 12,317
Re: Liferaft: Yes or No ?

square rubber inflatable inner tube with a zippered tent on top of it which one can get try to get into in rough seas and hope someone finds you

way too many words, lets just call it a life raft as that seems better marketing!
__________________

__________________
jobless, houseless, clueless, living on a boat and cruising around somewhere
sailorboy1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
liferaft

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
A Self-Service Liferaft Design - Interested ? David_Old_Jersey Health, Safety & Related Gear 70 20-01-2016 14:56
For Sale: Liferaft: 8-Person Plastimo Transocean George P Classifieds Archive 5 16-12-2011 11:59
Sailing without a Liferaft or EPIRB Rory B Health, Safety & Related Gear 27 09-10-2011 10:19
Liferaft AquaticUrsidae Health, Safety & Related Gear 1 11-07-2011 22:42
Lavezzi 40: Removal of Liferaft Recess in Rear of Lavezzi Cruisin Cat Fountaine Pajot 1 07-07-2011 14:21



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 00:17.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.